The role of a separate self must be played no matter what.

[MarkusSweden]

I haven't figure this thing out until very recently.  Why I feel so uncomfortable around people I know! But perfectly calm, curios and collective around strangers. 

For most people it's the other way around I guess.

The simple explanation for this is of course that with strangers there is no expectation of "a self", or rather, no expectation of a particular "self".

I could be whoever I like. And therefore I don't have to "remember" who I am in front of this stranger.

I can just surrender to the present moment, "the now" and let my love/intuition flow free, and what ever happened in that moment, that is who I am.

Such a luxury to meet strangers, if you are open minded that is.

Even if negative stuff happens when you meet a stranger, which almost never happens, but imagine someone picking on you or start an argument with you for some reason. You are still completely free to be who you like to be, whatever arise so to speak is what you are. So even those situations are highly enjoyable. 

With people you know it's different thing though, there will always be expectations, good or bad, there will always be an idea of who you are. A "person" or ego is projected upon you. The person you know project his idea of who you are and you have to play that role in a way.

And vice versa, you don't see your parents as completely fresh human being that are free to be whatever they like to be in every moment when you see them, you also have an idea of whom others are!  

And this is what I like to discuss, because even if you become enlightened, you must play the role of a separate self, thats how the social game is set up. At least you have to play the role of the enlightened one if no other role. At least if you have people that know "you" in your life. 

And this is SOO draining of energy, isn't it? 

How do you feel about playing the role of a separate self. And don't try to tell me it doesn't exist, that I already know. But show must go on, the role must be played, now how do you feel about it? 

I am all in on the Leos idea of becoming a sage! In fact, it's a damn good idea. 

 

[Echoes]

@MarkusSweden why do you think you must stay loyal to the projections others made on you? Yes, it's a common underlying/unconscious mindset, this "don't change, be the person you always were, and if you suddenly be different, then that is weird, and you are weird. Because does that mean you were not authentic or uncomfortable with yourself before?" 

But we don't have to play along with this. It's hard to do though, but that's where the work comes in.

[MarkusSweden]

21 minutes ago, Echoes said:

@MarkusSweden why do you think you must stay loyal to the projections others made on you? Yes, it's a common underlying/unconscious mindset, this "don't change, be the person you always were, and if you suddenly be different, then that is weird, and you are weird. Because does that mean you were not authentic or uncomfortable with yourself before?" 

But we don't have to play along with this. It's hard to do though, but that's where the work comes in.

Impossible I would say! 

Let say I meet one of my colleagues in the city.  Let's say we often are in a humorous mindset at work, there is a culture at work with irony, humor which I love. 

Then when I meet that very colleague I'm in a total different mindset, I like art/beuaty and tends to go deep in my own "universe" so to speak.

Then I run in to my colleague that meets me with a big smile and expect me to be that sarcastic funny guy from yesterday...

If I'm total indifferent to him I would feel I let him down big time. And if I try to swish to that jovial mood I usually share with him that would not be authentic at all, just awkward. 

In fact when I'm in contemplation mood, there's really no thing as humor, I've transcended that.

I face syntax error in my head when I run into people like I describe above. The same when I am at that slightly cynical, but extroverted and practical joke type of character at work, then I would probably see that contemplation type I also can be as somewhat pathetic and pretentious

It would be horrific if even only different version of myself met "each other" ?  But you see, it's so unbelievable wonderful to be free, just be. But you can't really. Unless you become a sage I guess. 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by MarkusSweden

[Echoes]

@MarkusSweden I feel what you say. I have the same problem. It is hard sometimes to even know what my authentic self is. 

I think we have to dismiss this classical point of view that we are this one particular way, and that this is how we are. Authenticity means spontanious, simple expression of whatever is the truth for me at this moment/interaction. The problem arises when we betray ourselves in order to stay loyal to a projected persona or habitual pattern of interaction. It sometimes feels as if the habitual pattern or the perona is the real authentic self expression. It's very nuanced. There are feelings of guilt sometimes for not being the person the other expects one to be.

It is like a pendulum: on one extreme is the pressure of being absolutely the person that the other wants you to be, on the other side is absolutely not giving a fuck about what the other wants you to be (that might entail not even entering the interaction). Maybe the extreme pendulum swing into absolutely not giving a fuck is not the most authentic, because if whenever an interaction takes place, that implies that there is a dynamic between two different feelings of authenticity who meet eachother, and something beautiful can arise out of that. 

We have to try to be authentic and not betray ourselves, but still know that we are in a social interaction with someone who might not "get" us, so we have to find a way in which they "get" us and still express our truth. In the end, we can't express our truth and simultaniously try to control how the other will perceive or react to that truth. Our job is honesty and avoid self betrayal. But if we not start or take responsibility for installing authenthic, honest interaction, nobody will. Then it's "I am the person you want me to be and you are the person I want you to be" - and nobody is actually himself. It's a constant practice though, authentic self expression.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Echoes

[snowleopard]

@MarkusSweden I like the idea of being flexible and adaptable with the role-playing. It feels so much more freeing and creative.  There's nothing innately problematic with that.  What seems problematic is fixated, exclusive identification as that role. Maya can just be Lila dancing at the masquerade ball of emptifullness.  

[Nahm]

@MarkusSweden This is a great example of how important the practices are. Awareness alone will resolve this. Your answer is right here, you just aren’t aware of it yet, because you haven’t had the corresponding experience of raising the awareness yet. 

don't try to tell me it doesn't exist, that I already know. But show must go on, the role must be played, now how do you feel about it? 

We do that all the time. That’s how deep self deception is. In sales, when a customer tells you “the one thing I won’t do”, they’re helping the salesperson out by letting them know the one thing that is their issue, or where they’re stuck. Same as when a person tells their therapist, “I don’t want to talk about that”, now the therapist knows where they’re stuck. 

So you have to reverse all engines, let go of the momentum of that state of question - and open up the mind. I think a helpful perspective would be - maybe, I have an understanding what no self means, but that meaning is limiting to my awareness, maybe this is why the practices are the theme. You discovered an inconsistency in your own life, now become aware of what it’s pointing to. Only practices will do that, short of a trip any time soon. 

[SOUL]

@MarkusSweden To be able to survive in this world we have evolved a pattern recognition that is comprised of a very sophisticated and complex imaginary system. We wouldn't be able navigate our environment successfully without retaining information about it from our experience and forming habituation that is suitable for it.

With our inner life this pattern recognition is called the self which is really just a process of identifying ourselves in this world and yes, it's changes over time as well as in different circumstances. We can try to be authentic and 'true to ourselves' so to speak but every facet of our being isn't suitable for every circumstance we encounter.

Expectation is limiting for sure but if we had no basis of understanding the environment we would perpetually be in a state of stress from an instinctual perspective. So our minds make many unconscious assumptions in every moment in every circumstance even if they are false perceptions so we can place our conscious attention on more specific tasks.

What does that mean? Sometimes it's ok to have a 'work persona' that is different than one you may have off work and others for other situations but what to be aware of is to not behave in ways that are contradictory to your genuine nature to satisfy the expectations of others. This is what it is to be authentic even though this loosely knit 'self' may evolve over time as life runs it's course.

Just be authentic to your genuine nature of being.... the mind snaps selfies a million times a day to compile a gallery of perception, that's what it does, we just don't have to obsess over the gallery of snap shots.

Edited February 2, 2018 by SOUL

[snowleopard]

For the sake of this relational experience, the apparent Divine individuation into loci of Awareness may well be our destiny. However, I'd suggest don't even succumb to a fixated attachment as some 'authentic' self-identity ... or even 'enlightened' for that matter. These are just further handicaps to freedom. Ironically enough, even attachment to identifying as 'someone-who-is-liberated' is an obstacle. Ultimately abandon all such fixated self-identification. This does not preclude Divine individuation, it just frees it up to serve the integral function it is designed to serve, without the burden of having to be a 'better' exclusive self-identity vs all those 'lesser' ones -- just masks to be donned and discarded depending on the situation, without the notion that the dream is not a dream.

[Faceless]

Practical affairs the self is useful. 

Psychologically thought has no place. 

Psychological time is an illusion. Any movement from the self is a movement torwards self deception. 

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, snowleopard said:

it just frees it up to serve the integral function it is designed to serve

Oh, it's just "freed to serve the integral function it is designed to serve" of "Divine individuation" and "without the notion the dream is not a dream".... oh sure, of course.

I bet that cleared up it completely for them. Hehe