Where did consciousness come from?

[egoless]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless It's not really "seen" on psychedelics. You can't "see" infinity with your eyes. But you can access it through a sort of hyper-intuition which is, remarkably, clearer than sight. 3rd eye if you will.

This phenomenon is hard to imagine because it's immaterial. It's too crazy to be believed. I still have a hard time believing it, and I've "seen" it many times now. It always blows my mind.

Yes I think I know what you mean. Maybe shrooms are not as absolute as you experience it on 5Meo but yeah. 

So can that what you experience on 5Meo and still can not believe experienced without any psychadelics completely sober? If yes then how do you think one could achieve it? 

[MarkusSweden]

1 hour ago, egoless said:

Yes I think I know what you mean. Maybe shrooms are not as absolute as you experience it on 5Meo but yeah. 

So can that what you experience on 5Meo and still can not believe experienced without any psychadelics completely sober? If yes then how do you think one could achieve it? 

To me, micro dosing shrooms gives me the most out of psychedelics. Too messy with conventional doses. Just 1/3 or 1/4 of a dose and a calm and harmonic environment where you are free to contemplate and listening to the music you like on low volume gives me the most. 

Also, remember that Leo always state that there is possible to reach even the most deep state of awareness/enlightenment without any psychedelics what so ever. 

Mooji, Rupert Spira, Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti never use those and never talks about them. It's by no means a must do. 

[egoless]

32 minutes ago, MarkusSweden said:

Mooji, Rupert Spira, Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti never use those and never talks about them. It's by no means a must do. 

Exactly and I do agree with that.

All the benefits of psychadelics come with consequences. And being delusional is one of them. That’s my opinion.

[Leo Gura]

@egoless Being delusional is the default state.

[Shin]

1 hour ago, MarkusSweden said:

To me, micro dosing shrooms gives me the most out of psychedelics. Too messy with conventional doses. Just 1/3 or 1/4 of a dose and a calm and harmonic environment where you are free to contemplate and listening to the music you like on low volume gives me the most. 

Also, remember that Leo always state that there is possible to reach even the most deep state of awareness/enlightenment without any psychedelics what so ever. 

Mooji, Rupert Spira, Sadhguru, Eckhart Tolle and Adyashanti never use those and never talks about them. It's by no means a must do. 

They never talk about it because they are from a different generation.

And don't think that because they are so «above» and «pure» that the reason may not be to start to have a bad reputation, because it's most likely the case.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Shin

[Leo Gura]

@Shin Well, to be fair, they are from the psychedelic generation. But they don't talk about it because it would destroy their reputations and because their job is to teach you their systems, not to help you explore the entire domain. And honestly, many of them do not have enough experience with them.

Nonduality teachers tend to have a very narrow focus. This is both good and bad.

But Shinzen Young, for example, became a Zen monk after a deep psychedelic experience.

[Faceless]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Shin Well, to be fair, they are from the psychedelic generation. But they don't talk about it because it would destroy their reputations and because their job is to teach you their systems, not to help you explore the entire domain. And honestly, many of them do not have enough experience with them.

Nonduality teachers tend to have a very narrow focus. This is both good and bad.

But Shinzen Young, for example, became a Zen monk after a deep psychedelic experience.

What don’t people get about psychodelic experiences being thought induced projections??? 

Such an experience is still the product of thought. Experience is thought. If people observed themselves very very carefully they would see that to. This takes constant attention and care. 

Any experience is the experiencer experiencing themselves. Being, experiencing what they already know. One can only experience what one knows from memory, knowledge, and experience. 

Its only when one ceases to experience is there an action of wholeness. This action is sacred, holy, and empty. It’s the beauty of the quiet mind. A mind/conciousness that is not limited by its conditioning. This is headlessness. 

A movement outside of measure. Once in a while there is a deep deep ceasing  of the me and it’s always very shocking and comes to be when there is a total lack of volition in a certain direction. It’s quite extraordinary. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2018 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

What don’t people get about psychodelic experiences being thought induced projections???

Nope, they are not that.

Anyone who says that is speaking from lack of experience.

[pluto]

fat bottomed girls

Edited February 4, 2018 by pluto

[Edvard]

Because you can't be conscious of being unconscious; maybe the most simple of the explanations

What do you think «no consciousness» is like? It won't be experienced, and that's the point. If there is such a thing that we could call time, infinite time = zero in unconsciousness. But if infinite time = 0, what happens afterwards? So, there's another paradox. 

Even at the time I «followed» some materialistic atheists, this was the thing I disagreed with them about the most. Even if there was such a thing as death, time doesn't pass for the dead ones. The aliveness will always be there, cuz if it isn't, the experience wouldn't be there. And that's not, eh... sustainable... could be the word. It is always now, cuz if it wasn't, it is not now. 

Or, think of it this way: what happens when you become unconscious on Earth? Experientially you wake up immediately after, because only the time before and after is the now in experience. The time in between is not now.

This logic doesn't explain reality, but how I see it it explains why there is anything at all, why there is consciousness.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Edvard

[egoless]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@egoless Being delusional is the default state.

I see what you mean. Psychadelics can open new insights and boost your understanding I’m not saying they don’t. However, I think several few sessions with proper intentions and dose is enough to show you the way. Psychadelics can be overdone. You can unconsciously start to rely on them to get Enlightened. It will induce delusional expectations of Enlightenment being something powerful. When in reality the realization of your true nature is very simple and subtle understanding. However whole your existence is reborn with it.

[Kserkkj]

Say In The Mind To Your Seeing. A Sin Is Born From You. But You Tried To Make It Make It Make It. How You Made Yourself Become Less Talkative But More Allowing And Become The Person Which You Can Talk With.

[Nahm]

@Faceless Have you seen that all is thought induced projection? It helps in terms of distinction, escape, from the materialist paradigm.

[Truth Addict]

@egoless

I'm by no means more experienced than you are but I think this might help.

If you ever ask a preacher or a religion man: If God created everything then who created God?

They will answer you simply that this logic doesn't apply here because it's like asking:

"Who cooked the cook?"

I think it's quite normal to question everything, but also we should know the limits of logic. Though the question here is not valid, you should find out for yourself.

All the best ?

[egoless]

45 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@egoless

I'm by no means more experienced than you are but I think this might help.

If you ever ask a preacher or a religion man: If God created everything then who created God?

They will answer you simply that this logic doesn't apply here because it's like asking:

"Who cooked the cook?"

I think it's quite normal to question everything, but also we should know the limits of logic. Though the question here is not valid, you should find out for yourself.

All the best ?

Yes that’s very true what you said. But my question exactly implies wether it is possible or not to find out an answer on it. In my experience even after realization of the true nature the answer on this question is open. 

So that’s why I am asking to find out wether there is anybody on this forum who found the answer in his direct experience. But seems like there is none. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by egoless

[Edvard]

3 minutes ago, egoless said:

Yes that’s very true what you said. But my question exactly implies wether it is possible or not to find out an answer on it. In my experience even after realization of the true nature the answer on this question is open. 

So that’s why I am asking to find out wether there is anybody on this forum who found the answer in his direct experience. But seems like there is none. 

So what do you think «unconsciousness» is like, referring to my post? 

Maybe it helps to ask how there could not be conscousness, rather than how it could be.

[egoless]

4 hours ago, Edvard said:

Because you can't be conscious of being unconscious; maybe the most simple of the explanations

Here you infer that you still exist. What if no you and nothing at all exists? You are trying to explain it with circular reasoning...

4 hours ago, Edvard said:

What do you think «no consciousness» is like? It won't be experienced, and that's the point. If there is such a thing that we could call time, infinite time = zero in unconsciousness

Again why do you take it as granted that smth should be experienced at all. Why? Why do you infer that there should be time in any form? What if there is nothing at all. No consciousness, no time, no manifestation, no you, no onnes, no god. Absolute zero - absolute nothingness.

Edited February 4, 2018 by egoless

[Edvard]

16 minutes ago, egoless said:

Here you infer that you still exist. What if no you and nothing at all exists? You are trying to explain it with circular reasoning...

Again why do you take it as granted that smth should be experienced at all. Why? Why do you infer that there should be time in any form? What if there is nothing at all. No consciousness, no time, no manifestation, no you, no onnes, no god. Absolute zero - absolute nothingness.

It's kind of hard to explain this, but the way I see it is that one can't not be conscious. Imagine that there is nothing at all - which really is what you are in essence (which enlightenment reveals), but there would still be an awareness there. That awareness is the real you, and that awareness has to be there, because that includes everything (I'll try to come back to it). It's true, you don't exist as anything but that awareness, which you may call God, and that was always there at all times, and is eternal. What Eckhart Tolle may refer to as "the Now", which is eternal, saying you are the light of consciousness. What else could there be? 

There is nothing at all, but that nothing is paradoxically you... or, the space of consciousness that again includes everything. And in some mysterious sense it created everything that happens in that consciousness - by what seems to be infinite imagination, so to speak. But still, what we "experience" in our lives is not that consciousness. That is not you. Only the one thing that it happens within is consciousness. 

So again, awareness has to be there, was my claim, even if there is nothing at all (which it really is). Why? Well, the best way to realize it is to have an experience of it, but IMO it can also be understood intuitively and even logically (which @Leo Gura may disagree with?), but what enlightenment is, is that you basically eliminate all the things that appear in consciousness, all reactions, concepts, and by that eventually sensations too - what then is left is that pure awareness which was always there. The "content" of consciousness is revealed to be nothing. When one gets there, one could realize that that awareness can't be eliminated, because it is just now. That's what it comes down to; now. Take it away, and it would still be now. Now can't be eliminated. It is always now. I'm recognizing it's extremely hard to explain, but I tried.

[egoless]

16 minutes ago, Edvard said:

but what enlightenment is, is that you basically eliminate all the things that appear in consciousness, all reactions, concepts, and by that eventually sensations too - what then is left is that pure awareness which was always there.

This tells me that you might not have the precise idea what Enlightenment is. You don’t eliminate any of those you mentioned. On the contrary you become one with everything and realise that all of these you mentioned are made out of you - the pure awareness. 

19 minutes ago, Edvard said:

Imagine that there is nothing at all - which really is what you are in essence (which enlightenment reveals), but there would still be an awareness

Why do you make this assumption? Why can’t there be nothingness without awareness or consciousness? Try not to take anything for granted when exploring for the Truth.

[Faceless]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Nope, they are not that.

Anyone who says that is speaking from lack of experience.

Ok ?? 

an intelligible response would have been how does one come to such a conclusion but??‍♂️

Well i guess one will have to find out for themselves.