If you’re already “dead”

[Leo Gura]

The key delusion of the ego is that it thinks it's in control. That's how it justifies it's perpetuation.

It's sort of like a tyrant who keeps insisting the country would die without him. He will conjure up all sorts of phony evidence to show that he's working really hard to keep the whole thing together.

But the key question is, why would you believe the tyrant when he has a clear conflict of interest?

Of course the fox guarding the hen house will say, "I'm needed to protect all these chickens! Without me, someone's gonna eat them all."

[SOUL]

Continuing to add attributes to the straw man doesn't change what a "self" is actually defined as.

"a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action"

That is what the self is so direct your evidence towards what the self is defined as, not in straw 'self' building.

Edited February 1, 2018 by SOUL

[Thanatos13]

17 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Continuing to add attributes to the straw man doesn't change what a "self" is actually defined as.

"a person's essential being that distinguishes them from others, especially considered as the object of introspection or reflexive action"

That is what the self is so direct your evidence towards what the self is defined as, not in straw 'self' building.

I have given evidence, you seem to want to redefine what that self actually is. It’s not my fault you don’t accept that there is nothing in the corner of an “essential being”.

He has proven that the self, as an independent entity, doesn’t exist.

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The key delusion of the ego is that it thinks it's in control. That's how it justifies it's perpetuation.

It's sort of like a tyrant who keeps insisting the country would die without him. He will conjure up all sorts of phony evidence to show that he's working really hard to keep the whole thing together.

But the key question is, why would you believe the tyrant when he has a clear conflict of interest?

Of course the fox guarding the hen house will say, "I'm needed to protect all these chickens! Without me, someone's gonna eat them all."

You clearly don’t know what we are talking about as this has nothing to do with the subject.

[SOUL]

@Thanatos13 Oxford states that definition, I just posted it here.

What is essential? Being alive for a biological creature. What is being? Being a being. So the self pertains to the alive being.

As the object of introspection OR reflexive action. Our body reflexively creates the sense of self, we don't decide to construct it, it's reflexive.

It has nothing to do with control, behind the mask, pulling strings or any of that "story" being created to build the straw man.

If the process that produces a sense of self doesn't exist, why does someone who has amnesia have it altered or damaged? The brain processes exist.

What we experience as self conscious exists, maybe not as people believe it does in their straw man or ego story but it exists nonetheless.

Although, you are welcome to reply again to tell me it doesn't but only proving it does in doing so.

Edited February 1, 2018 by SOUL

[Thanatos13]

Except there is no essential being. There is no “core”.

But I guess now we are arguing about the definition of a self.

[SOUL]

Do we doubt the sense of sight exists because it's constructed using a variety of biological processes in the body? What about smell, taste or hearing?

If the sense of self doesn't exist because it's just biological processes then none of the senses exist, right?

The self ceases to exist when the processes cease to function in producing it just the same way someone goes deaf or blind when those processes fail to produce the sense.

The story the ego creates with that sense of self?..... Well, that's another story altogether.

It is what it is.

Edited February 1, 2018 by SOUL

[Staples]

10 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

I use the term in quotes since the sense of self is merely a construct to understand the world around us, it doesn’t actually exist and never did (hence why “you” never actually “died”). 

But assuming that is the case then why bother doing anything at all? Is that not the “ego” when it comes to self actualization (which I’m still skeptical about)? What makes one keep living if there is nothing doing the living?

Sure, you can do that, no problem. Don't bother doing or being anything at all, and see how far that gets you. 

[Thanatos13]

10 minutes ago, Staples said:

Sure, you can do that, no problem. Don't bother doing or being anything at all, and see how far that gets you. 

Apparently Pyrrho found success with that, allegedly.

I also think you don’t understand what is being said.

[Saumaya]

On 31/01/2018 at 11:07 PM, Thanatos13 said:

I use the term in quotes since the sense of self is merely a construct to understand the world around us, it doesn’t actually exist and never did (hence why “you” never actually “died”). 

But assuming that is the case then why bother doing anything at all? Is that not the “ego” when it comes to self actualization (which I’m still skeptical about)? What makes one keep living if there is nothing doing the living?

@Thanatos13 Who is bothering?...Also You can still grow as a human after enlightenment. Life has no meaning, even when you're not enlightened.