What I realized about "Enlightenment" thanks to Leo's Work.

[Angelo John Gage]

For me, I think @Leo Gura best videos that had the most impact on my life were The Moralizing videos, Absolute Infinity, and his recent episodes on Self Deception.

These three videos series had a profound impact on me because even though I had left Catholosism in my early 20's, the programming of what was 'right' and 'wrong' was deeply embedded in me. Although Leo and I are a probably opposite on the political spectrum, I have realized that even politics is just made up, but  is a 'necessary' evil in order to organize what we call society. But at the same time, even labeling politics anything is ego; as it is made up,  there is in fact nothing 'right' or 'wrong' about politics or anything we made up at all other than it is not reality. But at the same time, it exists in a mental reality that we created, which is a psuedo-reality/virtual reality of the mind of our species.

In regards to "shoulding" or 'right' and 'wrong', where I once considered anything claiming  to be "relativism" as post- modern Marxist ideology pushed to destroy the West, Leo does a great job breaking the deluded thinking of Western philosophy, but at the same time, as he may not realize, also breaks down Eastern philosophy. In fact, I think Leo's entire philosophy is a non-philosophy: the same way I have come up in my own thinking is the Philosophy of Nothing. This is the position which I am currently and naturally transitioning to myself into as I continue to shed old beliefs.

Nothing is more powerful than" anything, as "any" thing is bounded while "no-thing" is not. But paradoxically, at the same time, "nothing" cannot do "anything." Essentially this is what I got out of the Absolute infinity videos which were a great way to imagine "God" but also making you realize it is impossible to imagine at all. Both Nothing and Anything are compliment and make up their respective flaws and distinctions, which of course, we made up and don't actually exist.

What I took from his series on Self Deception (which I might add I enjoy Leo's humble approach to himself) is that, we would all be insane to believe we could ever be masters at anything. Anyone who claims to be a guru or a master is more deluded that any un-awakened human. Why? Because I think a master, teacher, or whatever, should know the fundamental truth learned by being enlightened that: There is no final level, thus mastery or anything is just another attempt by the ego to make a distinction between someone who is aware and unaware. My argument is that the more aware you are, that way less deluded about your own belief that you know anything at all becomes understood. That is what I took from the self deception series which I find was a great series.

I've concluded from all this that there is no further reason to chase being enlightened; in fact, you cannot ever BECOME enlightened. you can only EXPERIENCE it. Furthermore, all you can ever do is experience anything, as life is ONLY an experience. And it has many forms of experience, in fact, INFINITE forms which NONE can be described with words ever. You cannot even describe the taste of your food, even when someone else tastes the same food and agrees that it is "good" because we can never experience their taste of the same food they are experiencing, from their experience. How can you know that person is tasting the same way you are and that their 'good" is the same good as yours?

In other words, even if we obtained "enlightenment," our experience would only be limited to our perspective and could never be identical to someone else's experience. And as Leo pointed out, the Absolute infinity has INFINITE ways that can never be reached, thus, NO ONE can ever be fully enlightened, can never know God, and anyone who claims to know God or be enlightened in full of shit. So I use the term enlightened here to describe the UNDERSTANDING of this by reaching a limited experience of the so-called unlimited, which in of itself is limited by that set experience.

We can only experience our fraction that we are in the entire part of the Whole. Even if we saw the "Whole" we are only seeing it from our perspective which in fact is only a sliver of the whole. In other words, we are always going to have bias and the ability to only see from our own eyes, experience from our own experience, and no one else's, thus never being able to see the Whole as the Whole, which is why there are infinite levels, because the infinite levels are composed of all the other infinite experiences possible that we cannot ever be.

So is there a point to further continue enlightenment? I believe the answer is no. Because once you "get there", and learned that you will never get there, cannot ever get there in the final sense, or ever BECOME IT; just glimpse at it and simply experience it, the rest of the attempts to go to it either become a form of escapism, or just sheer addiction to get there and see it over and over for you own pleasure, or to try to learn something else to add to your egoic memory. I think the main point of becoming enlightened is to reduce your own suffering and you do this by learning you are not the ego. But ironically, even that can cause suffering. I believe this can be achieved with even ONE experience; maybe others need 1000 times, but I think this is the fundamental truth we are looking for.

Enlightening to me is removing the delusions of the ego so you can return to this shared reality and "lighten up" and continue to experience your human form in a better way. That is why many people who achieve enlightenment simply laugh or cry in tears because its so simple and the reason why it is so mind-blowing is because what is seems to be is that it is nothing, which is like a giant joke no one expected lol.  But then again, that is only ONE perspective that is nothing; the other is that it is everything!

As Leo pointed out, some people go on 40 year journeys to become enlightened and can never get there. Leo can take some LSD or whatever on video and melt right before us; reaching it in 10 minutes, but even that is only a faction of it. NO ONE can ever reach it fully.

So for me, I think Actualized and Leo's work is phenomenal. Although I'm not a fan of the cult-like and the Leo-worship vibe I get here from some followers, which he clearly speaks against in his videos, I believe he did a great job actually pushing forward thinking to the next level. He may be humble by about his own work, but I see an even deeper meaning perhaps he is unable to express in words? But I get what he is truly saying. Or do I?  Maybe he does not even know how profound and simple it is; maybe he does? But all I know is that for myself I have taken what I have learned here and realized even more that maybe even taught here. And that I think is what true teachings can do; they teach the student to leave off where the sensei began. Sensei means "the one who came before" and I think it is a delusion to think that a Sensei cannot be surpassed by his student, in fact, if he is not, he has failed. 

I believe everything is evolution; the physical, of the mind, of the spiritual, and if the absolutely infinity is true, then nothing can ever be fully realized and that is the ultimate truth. Our job, as so-called "enlightened" people or those on this path, is to realize that we are here to pass the baton of evolution to the next generation on this infinite path, knowing that our teachings and our realizations will only be a stepping stone to the next level, which is on a infinite staircase that is ultimately a strange loop. Knowing this I think is what enlightenment is; but even the dumbest person you can talk to may even reach this conclusion and tell one of us looking for God this simple truth and laugh at us saying, "How can you ever know God?" Even the most devoted, deluded Christian will tell you he is unknowable, unimaginable, indescribable. So in a sense, even the unawakened or the most ignorant can say something true; the only difference is that  they didn't experience this for themselves and are simply parroting their beliefs which they did not obtain by experience. 

So to summarize, for me, this all boils down to KNOWING that you have EXPERIENCED what the fuck you are talking about; or at least THINKING you have via an experience, only to know that even THAT isn't all of it, and thus, the  mind-fuck never ends, nor will it ever end, and knowing this, I feel, is enlightenment is simply that. I am not discouraging anyone to stop meditating or learning; but just to know, whatever you do learn or achieve, there is always more and to think you ever reached anything but another unique experience, will have up ending up thinking you are holier than thou or are "finished" which is even worse off than you left off; as many of these so-called godmen or gurus we see act or claim to be like, when they in fact are not anything but the limited sliver than can ever be in regards to the whole.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by Angelo John Gage

[Leo Gura]

If you use anything I say to stop your journey, you've tricked yourself.

[Ocean]

24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You use anything I say to stop your journey, you've tricked yourself.

What if we tricked ourselves that there is a journey in the first place?

If the enlightenment journey implies someone achieving something that they don't already 'have' it will ensure continued ignoring of the obvious.

Personal development journey makes sense, build your character and build a better dream...sounds like a fun journey. Although, ego is never truely content so maybe be weary with that one

Enlightenment however could be something very different.  The journey stops and you got feck all to do but enjoy what seems to happen. With no chasing it could become very relaxing,. Once all the ego and illusionary nonsense is seen through though. A lot of work and absolute honesty with what is ...which could takes years, maybe decades if we have blindspots.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Leo Gura Not at all. I say to stop "chasing" enlightenment as if there is a final stage to get there, and to basically know all the work we do, whether its 40 years of meditation of tons of trips, we will only come back to pass on the baton to the next phase of evolution of mankind.

I'm specifically talking about what you preach against: how people begin to worship their gurus or whatever, thinking they have all the answers. What I state here is the enlightenment, to me at least, is the understanding that it can only be experienced and never FULLY achieved by anyone because of its infinite nature. So whatever trips you are on, notice theere are never the same and there is always more to learn. How is this possible? Because no enlightenment is total; it cannot be if it is infinite in nature.

Take yourself for example; by your own words you have achieved different insights than 2000 years of Greek Philosophy, but even you have more to learn. In fact, you know you cannot ever fully realize perfection in your learning process. Any mastery, once achieved, will find another level waiting above. Mastery cannot ever be achieved unless there is a finite level of levels to achieve it. You know this to be true, otherwise you would just stop now.

So to put it in a better analogy, we can see the Matrix; but what we see form our experience is still only part of it, and when we return, we only come back to upgrade it with our part of the experience. Neo can only see it from Neo's eyes; Morpheus from his... You can see it from Leo's eyes, I can see if from Angelo's eyes. In other words, we are all collectors of experience and all we can do is share our experiences with each other. Because how can you even know if your "enlightenment" is the same as Buddah's or whoever's; just like how would you know if we taste the same ice cream flavor the same?. All we can do is share our experiences from our perspectives; and this continues forever.

By no means do I mean stop learning or quit, and by no means do I mean stop your work.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Angelo John Gage

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightenment is acceptance of reality and the giving up of the idea of a sense of control and the giving up the idea of a separate sense of self.  It is also a preference for existential truth over conceptual truth.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Joseph Maynor But check this out:

Reality contains conceptual "truth" right?

I was thinking this the other day... Our thoughts ARE real, they are just never manifested; and as Leo would say are hallucinations, but so is reality. Yet they exists in the form of thoughts, which is different than what is realized in "physical" reality. But even physical reality doesn't exist, apparently. So it as if the entire reailty is a thought, which is conceptual, but has "manifested".

So I can say that Pink Unicorns don't exist, but they do in your mind. And if it is in your mind, it is in this reality, because your mind is part of this reality, is it not?

Think about this: How does a thought such as Communism spread and affect "reality" if it only exists as an idea in our heads?

[Angelo John Gage]

Because Ideas drive actions.

The concepts which do not exist anywhere but in our minds, drive us to move in this reality, thus making the concept real, but never manifesting the concept itself; only a physical representation of it.

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage
You can experience unrelative God, aka, absolute. It is reachable “fully”. Then, that “end” is the beginning of embodiment. This is right in front of your eyes. Ask anyone who says the void is the absolute, what embodiment is, and they’ll stop in their tracks. Don’t believe me. 

Excellent breakthroughs man.

There is a mindfuck that ends the mindfucks. 

 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Nahm But even when we apparently experience the Absolute, we are seeing it from our perspective. For example, when we reach those infinite rooms where we can see geometry and things moving, we are seeing it from that point in which we can see its vast infinite nature; thus we became only part of the Absolute which allows us to see the other parts which are not at our point of experience.

To explain this: Imagine for some reason you were seeing from your fingers, and pointed to look at your face to see your eyes; you are still part of the Whole (body) yet seeing itself from a different angle. You have become your eyes, but are elsewhere observing your own eyes but are no longer your eyes.

You know that you cannot see your own perspective, just like God cannot go outside of himself to see himself, because there is nothing outside of himself...so is it with seeing the whole, you cannot do it. You can only experience YOUR part of the whole, which can be a part but never all parts simultaneously, because you cannot go outside of yourself to do that.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Angelo John Gage

[Faceless]

Any experience is a movement of thought. Therefore not whole. All experience is a projection of thought. 

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage No. The absolute is you. In the experience of the absolute, there is no human you “experiencing it”. That is the thing that can’t be communicated, and of course why conceptualizing it, is not experiencing it. What I am pointing at is well beyond ‘the whole’. The ‘whole’, is taking place within you. 

Another pointing at it, using what is simple and in front of us, if I say to you “You are God”, you experience your relativity. You experience any notions of  the difference between what you hold yourself to be, and what you hold God to be. For as long as there is relativity there, what you’ve stated is the case, is your experience. Experiencing absolute, is no relativity. No relativity. The ‘whole’ is like a tiny little spec within the absolute, within you.  It is not thinkable, or imaginable, it has to be experienced. 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Angelo John Gage said:

@Leo Gura Not at all. I say to stop "chasing" enlightenment as if there is a final stage to get there, and to basically know all the work we do, whether its 40 years of meditation of tons of trips, we will only come back to pass on the baton to the next phase of evolution of mankind.

I'm specifically talking about what you preach against: how people begin to worship their gurus or whatever, thinking they have all the answers. What I state here is the enlightenment, to me at least, is the understanding that it can only be experienced and never FULLY achieved by anyone because of its infinite nature. So whatever trips you are on, notice theere are never the same and there is always more to learn. How is this possible? Because no enlightenment is total; it cannot be if it is infinite in nature.

Take yourself for example; by your own words you have achieved different insights than 2000 years of Greek Philosophy, but even you have more to learn. In fact, you know you cannot ever fully realize perfection in your learning process. Any mastery, once achieved, will find another level waiting above. Mastery cannot ever be achieved unless there is a finite level of levels to achieve it. You know this to be true, otherwise you would just stop now.

So to put it in a better analogy, we can see the Matrix; but what we see form our experience is still only part of it, and when we return, we only come back to upgrade it with our part of the experience. Neo can only see it from Neo's eyes; Morpheus from his... You can see it from Leo's eyes, I can see if from Angelo's eyes. In other words, we are all collectors of experience and all we can do is share our experiences with each other. Because how can you even know if your "enlightenment" is the same as Buddah's or whoever's; just like how would you know if we taste the same ice cream flavor the same?. All we can do is share our experiences from our perspectives; and this continues forever.

By no means do I mean stop learning or quit, and by no means do I mean stop your work.

ENlightenment has to do with what you are, it’s well beyond / transcendent to learning or even being a thing that learns.