Every value is bottomless, I need help re-orienting

[ItsAvi]

There's a lot to this so i'll keep it as concise  as possible. Last year after 180 days straight  of meditation, Spiritual autolysis, and a trauma I'll leave unnamed, I had an experience I was not able to forget, or run away from for the past year. I saw my entire life, my personality, "me" had been an egoic construct and lie. Everything I gave value too was created by me as an  illusory label. There are just thought stories I assign to  things to create meaning but none of is actually concrete or real. My goals and dreams too, they are bottomless and the  value in them is completely created by me.

I tried to forget about this and  run away from it.  I tried constructing highly egoic identities and to pursue my previous egocentric desires such as Pick-up, making a lot of  money, and the like. I kept running into the same issue which was the value in all of these kept falling apart in front of me. It felt too artificial, non-purposeful. Eventually I realized the only thing concrete that I can feel are feelings itself. They are  the only  things that  give value to  anything I do, everything else is just a thought  story or a fabrication. (I understand that these insights go much deeper and I'm merely on the surface, but I'm only talking from where  I am right now).

Some of the effects of these insights has been me seeing through my friends personalities. Seeing their existence as various emotional attachments to thought stories they constructed and attached to as their identity. I broke up with my girlfriend as a part of this as well because she seemed so consumed in the fabrication.

So all this being said, I am a bit lost on where  to  go  from here. I have a hunch it's in the direction of living more heart-centered but I'm not sure what to do. I've been a bit lazy to be honest. It's a bit harder to motivate myself since nothing seems to have value. I've become quite nihilistic.

Can anyone relate to this? Has anyone went through this? Does anybody have any tips on reconciling some other desires that pop up with this as well?  For example I still desire intimacy and connection, but I can't get myself to do it through any sort of fake means so I'm  not sure how to pursue it.

Thank you,

Avi

[ItsAvi]

I'm hoping to get some sort of clarity on what to do now. I'm also hoping to resolve some conflicts. To illustrate, as I mentioned earlier I still desire intimacy and the like. I have particular neuroses and patterns that cause me to be attached  to  those  desires. I want and have put consistent  effort in achieving them but I have trouble finding lasting motivation  to  do this that won't fall apart when  I look at it. As a result I end up going after this with action that isn't guided by any higher purpose. 

 

On another level I'm hoping to end my current suffering and confusion. Nothing has meaning and I don't know how to resolve that. Well..I have a bit of a clue but I really don't want to go down that road and that is to continue the Spiritual Autolysis practice and Meditation I was doing  before. I don't want to do that though because I feel like I'll be giving up everything I  was previously attached too. I know that sounds contradicting but I really want (or rather feel strongly attached) to the dream and don't want to give it up. (Which again is a weird contradiction because it's the  cause of the suffering).

 

Edit: I guess I'll add this as well, I wish I  could go back and unsee  that insight. I don't know how I would though, it's been a year and it still permeates

Edited January 28, 2018 by ItsAvi

[ItsAvi]

The first two, I forgot if  I read the third since this was about a year ago. 

The dream is everything. Friends, people, my identity, everything  I could care about,  everything.

[Torkys]

This was my third time facing an existential crisis. This one wasn't really a crisis because it wasn't painful.

Sink into it. It may be painful, but it's so liberating to integrate.

There are no absolute rules. This means that you can create anything you want.

Design your life. There is no wrong way. The passing away of objective meaning doesn't mean that creating a subjective one is a sin.

Lastly, this is Leo's comment on another nihilistic post which I absolutely love:

 

[Gopackgo]

Just because meaning doesn't exist objectively doesnt mean that what is meaningful to you is less valuable. A lot of times when these kind of emotions come up, it can help to reframe the issue. Instead of thinking as these emotions as bad and trying to remove them, think of them as aliveness. Aliveness is totally free to manifest in anyway that it wants to. Allow yourself to feel the emotions fully and ask yourself, is this really a problem? Or is it one part of an infinite scale of aliveness. Without the "bad", "good" can't exist. It is all part of the continuum, but if you deny a portion of your existence, then it has the potential to resurface and embolden itself in other portions. To call something a problem is to deny it's validity.

[Truth]

You forget to realize that everything good that has ever happened in your life, every positive emotion, every feeling of joy, every inch of love you've felt was ALSO created by you. doesn't that show you how powerful and meaningful your "egoic constructs, fabrications and lies" can be? 

That means you literally have the ability to bliss out like a yogi for no reason whatsoever. 

The issue is your subconscious doesn't know it yet. 

 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Truth

[ItsAvi]

I'm about to check out the third book right now. I have a vague memory of that process. It had something to  do with a line he drew on a pad and explained the story about a lady going through a car crash? I do remember him mentioning something about having to give part of yourself up.

I don't remember it to well though but thank you for reminding me. I might check it out again  because from what I can vaguely grasp I think it might be similar to what I'm experiencing. It does indeed feel like the old me has died.  Not  in an ego death  sense but more  the  personality I attached  myself too. I actually have a lot of trouble with conversations  now  because I don't know "Who" to be. There's nothing to cling on to or represent.@Mighty Mouse

Edited January 28, 2018 by ItsAvi

[ItsAvi]

@Torkys Thank you for  this.  I've actually had that feeling and realization of "Wow. I can do anything I want. Literally anything I want."

I find it interesting you say "Design your life. There is no wrong way. The passing away of objective meaning doesn't mean that creating a subjective one is a sin."

I get it on one level but there is something more to what you said which  I feel I need to contemplate on. I don't think I fully realize what you said  there so I appreciate you sharing it with me.

 

I looked at the question at your post that you made...funny I started diving into video games too because I'm sinking into my instinct and subconscious patterns. I'll look more into your post to see if there are any insightful responses. Did it lead you somehow to realizing and appreciating the freedom in a way which motivated you to take action?

[ItsAvi]

@Gopackgo I'll need to contemplate on this more. I've had a few glimpses into what you're  saying...in fact I don't always see the  suffering or "negative" emotions as bad, I just rest with them. It's  more of a type of boredem and  sickness I feel with these  negative emotions. It's also more of a fear of the future I've developed. I feel as if I'm just watching life go by and not doing anything. But there is nothing to do. This might sound off but I'm content with that but only discontent  because if I don't start doing something my life will not be filled with the positive emotions I wanted it to be initially.

Hope this isn't too confusing to read haha

[ItsAvi]

@Truth Wow..a lot of insightful answers haha. This is true, it is actually something I've been pondering on lately. As I mentioned before, I realized that the value in my experience comes from the emotions. I understand the deeper I go the emotions both "good" and "bad" loses its sting and becomes one in the same but as I mentioned I'm not at that point. Anyways, I have been thinking of ways to integrate that information. You're right in that my subconscious does not know that. I'm thinking of doing more positive things to create more of these positive emotions. The issue  is that it tends to end up leaving a void of unfulfillment inside and that leads me into the cycle of nihlism in which I realize again that all these are meaningless. Maybe that pattern is an issue?

[Torkys]

7 minutes ago, ItsAvi said:

I get it on one level but there is something more to what you said which  I feel I need to contemplate on. I don't think I fully realize what you said  there so I appreciate you sharing it with me.

12 minutes ago, ItsAvi said:

Did it lead you somehow to realizing and appreciating the freedom in a way which motivated you to take action?

Yeah, it's just a nature of nihilism. There are different levels of integration. You need to go through them:

1) OMFG, the meaning of life does not exist.

2) Well, there is nothing to do. I will do nothing.

3) OOOH! This means that I can create whatever I want. Doing absolutely does not make me happy (which is not to say that doing nothing or being happy carry any significance).

Experience it and contemplate it. You need to chew on it in order for it to liberate you. Trust the process and be mindful.

[ItsAvi]

@Mighty Mouse

Thank you so much Mighty Mouse.  I really appreciate your help with this and  for sharing  what  you  know. You actually reminded me... I  went  through an exploration of nihlism like this within last year before and made the  decision to find ways to make my life as happy as I can. But I ran into the wall of inauthentic values (attachments) as you mentioned earlier. So now I have to find a way to be happy authentically. 

And yes, I understand that some type of letting go or trauma paves the  way for people who reach Human Adulthood. I now have Spiritual Warfare and will be reading it.

[ItsAvi]

2 minutes ago, Torkys said:

Yeah, it's just a nature of nihilism. There are different levels of integration. You need to go through them:

1) OMFG, the meaning of life does not exist.

2) Well, there is nothing to do. I will do nothing.

3) OOOH! This means that I can create whatever I want. Doing absolutely does not make me happy (which is not to say that doing nothing or being happy carry any significance).

Experience it and contemplate it. You need to chew on it in order for it to liberate you. Trust the process and be mindful.

 

Will do. Thank you.

[Leo Gura]

@ItsAvi A lot of good advice here already.

I'll just add, have you tried psychedelics? They can show you a more positive version of this process. They can connect you to the magic of life and give you a higher vision for your new life.

After enlightenment, you're gonna want to sit down and ask yourself, "Okay, so that's that. But what next? But what do I want to create with my life?" Life is an opportunity to participate in the beauty of creation.

If you choose to create nothing, that's what you'll end up creating.

Also, whatever awakening experiences you've had up to now, it sounds like you have yet deeper to go to hit the infinite love facet of the elephant. That's what saves you from getting lost in nihilism.

[ItsAvi]

@Leo Gura Funny you mention Psychedelics. I actually have a friend who's getting me Psilocybin mushrooms. I was thinking of  using it in order to explore my  consciousness  and see what I find.

I was thinking something similar in that even if I go further to  enlightenment I won't necessarily have everything figured out. So at the moment I'm figuring out  what's best to do with my time in a way that I can agree with. (Meaning, I'll have the correct realizations in place in  order to move forward in creating whatever  it is I choose without having it fall apart due to my naivete). Thank you though, I want that fact to excite me. THere's something to  the  fact that I can create anything I want that's both exciting  and scary. It's scary because I feel meaningless with all the  possibilities but I also feel like there is something I'm not seeing which  if I realized I'd be experiencing a lot more motivation  towards creating rather than doing nothing. One clue I  feel to this is that that desire keeps popping up from somewhere, I just don't know where it wants me to go. That not knowing might just be my mind trying to rationalize something it can't though, since  there is  no meaning to attach too.

 

Thank you for that last bit "Also, whatever awakening experiences you've had up to now, it sounds like you have yet deeper to go to hit the infinite love facet of the elephant. That's what saves you from getting lost in nihilism". I'll spend time contemplating  this as well. I actually like this because it makes me (gladly) think that i'm currently too naive and  have a lot more to go. I guess that's what happens when I try to run away from the  journey out of fear. Eitherway I hope to create from a place of love. What exactly that means I don't know yet, but I hope it feels good. Maybe that won't matter though once I peel back enough layers.

 

[ItsAvi]

@Mighty Mouse @Leo Gura Just a quick question for you both, or anyone who's also went through this. I'm not sure if this happened to either of you but what did you do as a result of the detachment from your identity? Did you  just build a new fake front? How did you act around others? Can you still relate to people in a genuine way?

Edited January 29, 2018 by ItsAvi

[Ocean]

@ItsAvi One thing you may find adapting to is to conversations. You have to pretend a lot in regards to the beliefs of others and from experience, it won't help them by pulling the rug out the carpet and telling them its all made up and that they're believing things that aren't real - even though you see it's causing them suffering.

Most of our errors have to be resolved from our own work looking at things closely. Having others tell us, never creates a deep understanding of issues.

I found the error was mine for the above issue when I was honest, I pre-supposed that something needed to change (their suffereing), which meant I was back in duality/seperation again and ego was running the show. Like it is right now by replying to this thread. It's also making the excuse that this is justified for one reason or another. All lies and shows there will always be work to do, until there isn't.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Ocean

[ItsAvi]

@Mighty Mouse This puts me in a bit  of a conflict. For some reason, despite seeing through these people and  myself for that matter,  I still feel a strong desire with images attached to it of friends and sex. The  following might just be an ego game of mental gymnastics, but I feel like I'm going  against myself and giving up if I don't go after those desires. I'm not entirely sure  how  to  reconcile this and it's been bothering me for the past year. 

 

To be more specific, one of the  reasons its hard to reconcile is because I feel as if I have to build an image in order to satisfy my desires for intimacy, friendship, sex, and  the like. But I feel like I'm lying to myself when I do. But as mentioned before, the desire is still sustained. So, do I go after these desires? Or do I have to let them go? (I don't want to, i'm particularly attached to it which might be the cause in itself)

[ItsAvi]

@Ocean

7 hours ago, Ocean said:

@ItsAvi One thing you may find adapting to is to conversations. You have to pretend a lot in regards to the beliefs of others and from experience, it won't help them by pulling the rug out the carpet and telling them its all made up and that they're believing things that aren't real - even though you see it's causing them suffering.

Haha, I've done this before. The only time it ever worked was when a friend of mine took a psychedelic and when we talked afterwards was when he saw a glimpse of it for a moment. He then asked me to please not tell him anymore because he didn't want to see any further as he liked his life haha. 

To your last paragraph, I see your point Ocean. It is indeed just me taking what I've learned and trying to teach others for reasons which are just as presumptuous. I learned that lesson too and stopped telling people. Really unless they've had some sort of context to understand that  information it will just come off as crazy talk. My ex understands this haha.  

[ItsAvi]

@Mighty Mouse Good point. Thank you!