I blocked someone I actually want

[h inandout]

He is a beautiful man, and he proposed a really sexy idea: let's be meditation teachers together.  

But a blocked him, and it hurts.

He did not connect with a few key facts that I was trying to engage with him conversationally: my intense need for absolute independence, not knowing where the money would come from, feeling not well enough acquainted yet to make life plans together yet.  I wish he knew how to establish conversational safety because, who knows maybe he's the shit in every other way.  

I find that it is hard for men to want to be low commitment friends with me, and I find that makes me feel undervalued, and all that much less likely to want to sleep with them.  I am also super triggered by someone wanting to save me.  God dammit, why would I be working so fucking hard to save myself if I wanted him to save me.  I tried to hint at the difference between codependent, independent and interdependent, but some signal was going off inside me telling me that he's not ready to access that level of conversational nuance, and he definitely won't be able to receive the message from me.

Are there any men who feel capable of setting aside desire in order to engage in creating intellectual space, and subsequently space to warm up to one another, first?

[deci belle]

It's hard to act independently when it's still hard to act independently~ especially when a beautiful man proposes…

What is so hard (due to habit-energy) is keeping that clear intent intact (fueling the power of your blocking) because of doubts.

As I recognize this situation (if accurately so), one must hide (secure the basis of) this bit of knowledge (that fueled your action) where there is no intellectualism/emotionalism, not so it won't hurt, but so you won't waste any energy.

It hurts. What hurts (if I read this situation accurately), is a sense of recognizing something I will call unrefined potential. That hurts. If I am accurately reading this situation, setting aside doubts and secreting this unrefined potential where there is no intellectualism will result in your accrual of something real  by this very experience where you already knew what to do (block the basis of desire) because the perceived gap (the opportunity) wasn't backed by the few key facts.

It is essential to follow one's desire without stepping over the line. Without desire, there is no potential.

Confucious said that when he provided one corner (a revelatory statement) and the other person couldn't come up with the other three corners, he wouldn't talk to them any more.

You had the personal power to attract (if I'm reading this situation correctly) and gather a bit of potential by virtue of this situation. Now that you acted~ it's too late for regrets. So don't throw it away by entertaining the luxury of habit-energy (doubts) …let this cook (and no fair peeking!!).

Otherwise the power of sexual desire will do what it will, and steal that potential back~ heehee!! We can't have our cake and eat it too, hmmmm?

As for your last line, how about if you make the consequential proposal? Until you can set aside desire yourself, how will you ever know? Who engages who without desire? Hardly anyone I know.

 

 

ed note: added a few words here and there

Edited January 28, 2018 by deci belle

[h inandout]

Good god, I love the way you speak! Precision of language is so necessary in life, thanks for "getting it."  And thanks for reminding me to not waste time wondering if I could have made it work. 

Yes, desire is such a necessary component.  I guess I feel intimidated by the underlying intensity of it when all my prerequisites and safety measures have bulldozed or ignored by both myself and the other.  Where I'm at now is that each need or concern that arises needs to be adequately acknowledged and given space.  And mutually agreed upon as resolved.  In his mind, the stated potential was: I can just magically fly to India and be his co-meditation teacher/girlfriend after having had a few brief online convesations.  While this is totally a fantasy of mine, my fantasy allowed more thoughts about getting my shit together and problem solving small things.  I wish I could have just kept up the small talk with him for longer to mulch and cultivate and enjoy the desire.  You are right, you really can't be human or engage in anything without desire, and I am certainly intimidated by my own outward and inward desires as well.  Wow, I am just realizing this on a conscious level.

[NoSelfSelf]

Nothing can be forced relationship is like a growing flower that needs lots of attention and you can't just say grow flower be nice big one for me....In this case this guy just proposed an idea(i assume) not that you will actually come to him to be a teacher rather that he would like to see you..

[NoSelfSelf]

On 28/01/2018 at 3:47 AM, h inandout said:

 

Are there any men who feel capable of setting aside desire in order to engage in creating intellectual space, and subsequently space to warm up to one another, first?

Yes thats why dating is such a subtle game you have to balance intellectual connection but not wait too long for creating sexual one then you will friendzone him wondering why hes not doing anything like kiss etc...

[Key Elements]

@h inandout A very interesting post...

On 27/01/2018 at 6:47 PM, h inandout said:

I find that it is hard for men to want to be low commitment friends with me...

why would I be working so fucking hard to save myself if I wanted him to save me.  I tried to hint at the difference between codependent, independent and interdependent, but some signal was going off inside me telling me that he's not ready to access that level of conversational nuance, and he definitely won't be able to receive the message from me.

Are there any men who feel capable of setting aside desire in order to engage in creating intellectual space, and subsequently space to warm up to one another, first?

These points that you said caught my attention. My thoughts are: it's rare to find someone who is willing to be friends first and then go into a relationship. When I say friends, I mean very good friends. Both know their weaknesses and strengths and accept each other for who they are. To find this compatible match, you really got to grow yourself so that the right person comes along and you'll know.

Are you working on your life purpose? How far along are you on this path? This path can grow you a lot, and along the way, you'll be meeting different types of ppl. Are you able to connect your life purpose with spirituality? If you are working on this, what did you discover about yourself so far?

Usually, what happens is, both parties put their best foot forward. They are on their best behaviour before the relationship starts, and then, when they are actually in the relationship, all the flaws come out.

Two basic things could happen:

1. The relationship could start from codependent and grow into at least an independent relationship. 

2. Compromises can't ever be reached, and so the couple breaks up.

[ajasatya]

On 27/01/2018 at 11:47 PM, h inandout said:

my intense need for absolute independence

this is bs. if you were actually sincere about that, you would have become a monk long time ago. you say that you want absolute independence but there you are, desiring men.

stop lying to yourself. you don't want absolute independence. you want to use men to satisfy your sexual needs, just like the vast majority of men, who just want women to satisfy their sexual needs.

an intimate relationship is co-existing intimately. it's about sharing feelings, feeling vulnerable and contemplating the the vast mystery about who the other person is. if you want safety and individuality, this is not for you.

[alyra]

On 1/27/2018 at 9:47 PM, h inandout said:

He did not connect with a few key facts that I was trying to engage with him conversationally: my intense need for absolute independence, not knowing where the money would come from, feeling not well enough acquainted yet to make life plans together yet.  I wish he knew how to establish conversational safety because, who knows maybe he's the shit in every other way.  

okay, so long story short - he was a shit match that looked delectable.

I am sorry... It sucks to have someone you have deep feelings for, but to have to leave them in your past... no matter which way it occurs... and each time it happens, it happens a different way, and so it hurts on a whole new level. 

 

Who knows, maybe if you both had met a different stage in your life things could've been different. So - take the time to grow and become stronger, have more faith in the unknown - which don't mean blind faith - that can help but - it also means having the self-efficacy in the literal sense. trust in the literal sense. Grow, in general, and next opportunity will be more likely to be a match - not only because you will have grown, but the people who attract you will also be more mature too. And there's more out there than just a handful of matches. lots of people can mean even more to you than this one peer/stranger/friend did. 

[alyra]

huh. Independance see - desire for others is not dependance. What even is independance or dependance? a monk is dependant too if you really think about it. True freedom and independence is not being alone and seperate. it's having the trust in yourself to trust in others. it's having the strength to have a difinition of who you are, without losing yourself in it. or maybe - maybe it is losing yourself in yourself  isn't that curious... now I've got a lot to think about! 

 

but the point of my post is to say that you can't take "intense need" and call bs. maybe it's not quite what we believe it is tho, but if you can't trust that your experience has meaning, then you don't exist at all  if one person feels "[insert symbolic means of abstracting a complex experience]" it is true. not bs. if anything, it could be with illusion or self-deceit, or with ignorance, that the belief dictates how the person reacts to the experience... y'know? 

 

sorry, I do not know how to say it. forget me, I'm nothing but a silly. 

[HII]

On ‎28‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 3:47 AM, h inandout said:

I wish he knew how to establish conversational safety

Why do you put the responsibility on others instead of yourself to make yourself feel safe in a conversation?

On ‎28‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 3:47 AM, h inandout said:

But a blocked him, and it hurts.

Why was that step necessary? Why weren't you able to speak your mind in front of him as you're doing it here? If it would have been fruitless either way, then why do you make it hurt?

On ‎28‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 3:47 AM, h inandout said:

I am also super triggered by someone wanting to save me.  God dammit, why would I be working so fucking hard to save myself if I wanted him to save me. 

On ‎28‎.‎01‎.‎2018 at 3:47 AM, h inandout said:

Are there any men who feel capable of setting aside desire in order to engage in creating intellectual space, and subsequently space to warm up to one another, first?

To me this sounds like you want to be saved by a man who doesn't want to save you (and also fits a bunch of other specific requirements). Maybe saved in a different context, but structurally it's the same thing.

And then there are some other things I won't say because I'm afraid of sounding arrogant and mean

[h inandout]

@NoSelfSelf I feel really sensitive to other people's disappointment around "friend zoning" and it is so intense for me that I self sabotage because I know I really don't have male friends, or actually friends at all.  If someone were to know how deeply needy and terrified I am on the inside, I would certainly cause them harm, so I definitely have a tendency to isolate myself.  I hear what you're saying about guys needing to lean into sexuality otherwise nothing's ever gonna happen, I would think it was a pain in the ass to attend to so many subtleties if I was a dude.  I even have a crappy haircut just because I secretly want to convince men to friend-zone themselves.  I realize that this is a moot strategy now, and I should just be as fabulous as I want to be and not worry about breaking people's hearts.

@ajasatya Yepp.  I love sex, and I love making it really juicy, especially after my period. Let's be more brutally honest here though.  I could have a booty call in a matter of minutes if that's really what I wanted.  What I actually need here is Attention and Allowing and Acceptance, things I did not receive enough of in my childhood.  I want my boyfriend to be my rock and my therapist.  I see this in myself and it terrifies me.  I have had my sense of reality rocked so deeply that I want someone who can stand next to me and literally see from my viewpoint and tell me what it is that I am missing.  Who is gonna be able to pay enough attention to me other than someone who is interested in me?  Totally fucked I know.  I am trying to be my own best friend instead.

I think I would like to try the monk lifestyle if I can some day.  It seems like bodily desires are much easier to drop in the right Sangha.  I have really pressing debts from trying to save an ex with medical issues (yes big mistake, I get it now, why do you think I'm on actualized!? and yes his paranoid thinking is the reason I have seemed to lose track of reality)  Anyways, I can't ever seem to hold a job or a home for long enough to get my financial needs met.   

I think it's frustrating and disappointing that I can't be friends with people, especially men, because I don't want to burden the conversation with my overwhelmingly unmet needs.

Having said that, I totally recognize that there are shades of difference between perceived threats and actual threats.  I am afraid of letting someone see how much I am hurting on the inside because I fear they won't show compassion.  Intellectually, I know this is silly, because it doesn't matter if they show me compassion or not, I can always move on.  It is down right irresponsible for me to keep isolating myself again and again and again because I fear judgement and lack of support.  I think I just need to be more persistent with clarifying things in my conversations.

 

@alyra Thank you for your sympathies and your encouragement to wait for right timing.   I wish I was strong enough on my own two feet, but I see that is in some ways an elusive dream.

Do I really intensely need to be independent?  Do I really need to fear people's judgement of my actual needs?  Good inquiry questions.

 

@HII I did wind up telling him what I said here, and he said he could tell I had a lot of fear, and suggested meditation to help with that.  I felt good to have him validate that I really do have too much fear.  I think meditation will help if I stop trying to do it alone all the time.  You are absolutely right:  I want someone to save me, and to not save me at the same time.  It confuses the fuck out of me.  So I suppose to help me overcome this paradox, I will just look at it from the framework of dealing with issues as they come up, one step at a time.  If I get help, so be it, if not, so be it.  Half of me wants to be indefinitely isolated until I am a strong independent woman, but the other half of me is screaming inside and demanding a whole and fulfilling life right now!

Edited February 15, 2018 by h inandout