The Problem With Thinking of Reality as a Dream

[Dodo]

19 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No, because that is a pointer.  We can point without encapsulating.  It's still a model, but much less encapsulating than a definition or 'this is like that'.  I can say 'this' or 'this is like that'.  The former is much less distorting than the latter.  It still assumes a kind of individuation that is problematic.  But, we refer to reality as an Idealism for that reason.  As an idealism, it is by definition not definable in concepts.  We gotta be able to speak.  Language is inherently dualistic.  But that doesn't mean that reality can be defined in concepts.  That is empirically confirm-able.  That's what makes this kind of expression acceptable to us.  We can confirm it empirically.  Once you experience nothingness, you realize that reality is the antithesis of a thought.  It is that which contains thoughts.  But even this container metaphor is just a model.  Reality must be observed in itself.

Honey is sweet. This is not encapsulating honey to the 2d-ness of the word sweet. No, this is simply a description of the taste quality of honey. 

Saying "Reality is dream-like" is a correct statement exactly as the statement "Honey is sweet". We cannot say with certainty that it is a dream, I agree on that, but saying it is dream-like is definitely an undeniable quality that reality has. Your phobia of concepts does not play a role in the description of reality. 

[Joseph Maynor]

I think everyone would be well-served to watch this video again.  It's amazing how well Leo lays out some basic principles of Enlightenment that even a lot of advanced students miss.  I just watched it again myself, and I was amazed at how good it is.  Invest an hour and fifteen minutes to watch this video today.

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Dodo]

9 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think everyone would be well-served to watch this video again.  It's amazing how well Leo lays out some basic principles of Enlightenment that even a lot of advanced students miss.  I just watched it again myself, and I was amazed at how good it is.  Invest an hour and fifteen minutes to watch this video today.

 

@55:00 Lol Leo predicts Trump win <3 

[Gopackgo]

At least partially, reality being a dream can be thought of in terms of meanings, and emptiness. In a purely subjective reality, it means that there is no objective external world. Every individual body creates it's own reality. We are brought up to assume that there is a world outside of us that looks exactly as we see it, and so the mind assumes that meanings that exist in the subject are meanings that exist externally. It's not just meanings, it touches every aspect of life, because everything that we apparently come into contact with is consciousness, or just a manifestation of the subject. In this way appearance is emptiness because it is completely devoid of inherent values or meaning. A lot of identity consists of what meanings are projected as absolute and objective, and the reliance on the idea that reality has inherent meaning.

So thinking of reality as a dream is useful to start breaking down that reliance and undercutting positions that we hold as absolute in nature. The problem is that the self hears that reality is a dream, and wants to use that as a way to obtain external circumstances that it thinks will make it happy. In doing so, it misses the point of what that means, but that's not a bug of the teaching. It's actually an opportunity to see how manipulative the conceptual mind is, that it will distort any teaching to get what it thinks will make it free.

I think the idea of reality as a dream has many facets, and this is just one of them, but this is what came to mind when I saw this. Everything is consciousness. It is not solid, nor is it naturally imbued with meaning or definition. It really couldn't be any other way. Even if there was an external physical reality, no person or lifeform has ever had direct access to it, they have only had access to their subjective construction. (Actually, we are our subjective construction). 

In a lot of ways, you can actually see this projection happening in this conversation, because how you react to thinking of reality as a dream, is entirely dependent on how you define the word "dream" and "reality". If someone happens to hold a similar definition as you do, then you tend to agree with what they are saying. If you hold a definition of the words as objective/absolute, and someone else says something that conflicts with the definition that you project into the "world", then it might cause conflict. It just so happens that on this forum, people hold these ideas closer and deeper to their core identity, and therefore are more likely to feel the need to react more strongly to another's conflicting definitions. This isn't a bad thing because it helps progress society, but In a lot of ways, this explains a lot about the human condition.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Gopackgo

[tecladocasio]

@Mighty Mouse you don't know what you are talking man , sorry...

 

[George Paul]

"The paradox is that reality is both a dream and not a dream"

@Joseph Maynor

 

But who is sleeping ?

Edited January 27, 2018 by George Paul