The Problem With Thinking of Reality as a Dream

[pluto]

Careful now, all is perspectives.

[Shin]

10 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

What you call love is fear in disguise.

What if you haven't gone deep enough ?

What if you're wrong ?

 

@SOUL

Edited January 27, 2018 by Shin

[SOUL]

17 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

this is just another thought -- and therefore untrue.

If a thought is untrue, then wouldn't the thought that just being a thought makes it untrue be untrue?

Hm

Edited January 27, 2018 by SOUL

[Shin]

1 minute ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Are you concerned for me, or for your emotions?

None.

I just like to talk about this stuff  

[SOUL]

@Shin

 

[Will Bigger]

There isn’t a problem with thinking of reality as a dream. It’s also not “both a dream and not a dream.” That’s ridiculous.  ❤️You joseph.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Will Bigger

[Shin]

3 minutes ago, Will Bigger said:

There isn’t a problem with thinking of reality as a dream. It’s also not “both a dream and not a dream.” That’s ridiculous.  ❤️You joseph.

If it's all there is, then it can't be a dream.

If you can awake in it, then it's a dream.

So it's both  

Edited January 27, 2018 by Shin

[Nahm]

45 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

What you call love is fear in disguise.

Reading through one’s own past posts is really helpful & insightful. We can see the defensives in hindsight more easily. We can see when the vulnerability is apparent, and when the clever thinking was dominant. 

Consider, JM, is the worst thing that ever happened to you. Just consider it, that’s all. 

And psychedelics can explain this without any need for words or thinking.  The integration is another story. 

I am curious, can you explain what your meanings are, where you’re coming from when you say love is fear in disguise? (Maybe instead of clever, or humor, explain?) I find that statement interesting. Thanks and I hate you.  ?

[Vingger]

What it implies to your ego thinking Reality as a dream?

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by Vingger

[SOUL]

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse LOL??? I understand where you’re at. Fair enough man. You can put all the answer right in front of someone, but, well. Check out the absolute. It’s unbelievably worth it. 

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, SOUL said:

I just had a huge insight! Monkeys don't have monkey mind O_o Mind = Blown?! 

[Nahm]

@Vingger The nature of the ego is self deception. The self, is God. The ego’s is a mechanism that allows God to forget and experience otherwise. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

If it's all there is, then it can't be a dream.

If you can awake in it, then it's a dream.

So it's both  

What I am implying there kind of irreverently is that reality cannot be encapsulated by concepts.  That's why we use the term 'nothingness' to refer to reality.  But we gotta live that not just say it.  Saying 'reality is a dream' is like trying to encapsulate a 3-dimensional phenomena into a 2-dimensional model.  Almost any statement of the form "Reality is x", where x is a concept, is gonna be technically false.  Now, we can speak-loosely in many contexts, but if we're concerned with the highest level of truth, those statements are all technically false.  This is why we call reality 'nothingness' or 'everything'.  A common mistake I see is people give lip-service to this in theory but oddly forget about it in practice.   All that does is cause a nasty trap that will haunt you in this work until you see it and go -- oh shit! -- I've been sloppy -- I got hoodwinked by the Ego/Mind again.  

Edited January 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

@Dodo sock monkey guru

 

[Dodo]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What I am implying there kind of irreverently is that reality cannot be encapsulated by concepts.  That's why we use the term 'nothingness' to refer to reality.  But we gotta live that not just say it.  Saying 'reality is a dream' is like trying to encapsulate a 3-dimensional phenomena into a 2-dimensional model.

All the while you are encapsulating Reality with the word Reality. That's hypocritical! 

[Shin]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

What I am implying there kind of irreverently is that reality cannot be encapsulated by concepts.  That's why we use the term 'nothingness' to refer to reality.  But we gotta live that not just say it.  Saying 'reality is a dream' is like trying to encapsulate a 3-dimensional phenomena into a 2-dimensional model.  Almost any statement of the form "Reality is x", where x is a concept, is gonna be technically false.

That's what I'm saying when I say you got to try to feel that reality is a dream rather than thinking it is.

Feeling isn't quite the right term, you could say conscious of it.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Shin

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, Dodo said:

All the while you are encapsulating Reality with the word Reality. That's hypocritical! 

No, because that is a pointer.  We can point without encapsulating.  It's still a model, but much less encapsulating than a definition or 'this is like that'.  I can say 'this' or 'this is like that'.  The former is much less distorting than the latter.  It still assumes a kind of individuation that is problematic.  But, we refer to reality as an Idealism for that reason.  As an idealism, it is by definition not definable in concepts.  We gotta be able to speak.  Language is inherently dualistic.  But that doesn't mean that reality can be defined in concepts.  That is empirically confirmable.  That's what makes this kind of expression acceptable to us.  We can confirm it empirically.  Once you experience nothingness, you realize that reality is the antithesis of a thought.  It is that which contains thoughts.  But even this container metaphor is just a model.  Reality must be observed in itself.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Dodo]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No because that is a pointer.  We can point without encapsulating.

Dream is also a pointer. Most words are pointers. Most words point to something other than themselves obviously. 

Obviously reality is not the word dream.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Dodo

[Soulbass]

I had few discussions about the nature of reality, if it's a dream or not, until I wake-up and realize I was dreaming. This occure when I try to get lucid in a dream. Sometimes a character come to me and say "eh, you should perform a reality check" and I answer "this doesn't feel like a dream" and the illusion continue. Or, when I get lucid in a dream and try to convince people around me that we are in a dream, they say "nah, wathever, that's not serious..."

This reality seems real.