Which is a better object of mindfulness?

[The White Belt]

Would it be more effective to put mindful awareness on the movement of thought and keep coming back to that,

or to put mindful awareness on bodily sensations and keep coming back to that?

Or is it all one system in the sense that technically I could be mindful of my ass all day long and it would still increase my ability to catch negative thoughts as they arise?

 

Thoughts on this?

Thanks! 

[Faceless]

Sensations, feelings, thought all connected all one system 

[Faceless]

It’s important to know when thought is moving though. Thoughts tend to go unseen and atttrinute a quality that is not thought. 

If  that makes sense

Edited January 26, 2018 by Faceless

[Shanmugam]

@The White Belt When it comes to mindfulness, you don't choose.. Initially, it is ok to be mindful of breath and bodily sensations. But this has to be gradually extended to everything that happens in your conscious first-person experience without repressing or judging the thoughts including the thoughts which are judgemental about 'being judgemental of your thoughts'... And this has to be extended to every moment gradually, by being a complete, passive, non-judgemental witness of everything that happens when you are walking, eating, bathing etc.

Let us say this is your mind as you notice and the following thoughts are the thoughts which are arising:

Ok, I am going to be mindful of my thoughts - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

oh, am I doing this right? - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

I have to pee - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

and I really want to have sex with my new crush - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

(you feel guilty now and you notice this feeling as well)

(there is a slight pause in the thought flow now and you wait for the next thought to arise in a curious manner)

Probably after enlightenment I won't get such thoughts - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

(You get lost in the thoughts for 2 minutes, and you suddenly remember that you have to be mindful)

oh shit, I forgot to be mindful for a while - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

It is hard to be mindful, will I ever succeed? - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

It is too bad that I forgot to be mindful... I am not doing it correctly -you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

I am judging my ability to be mindful now.. this is a game of ego - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

my legs are aching.. let me sit down a bit - you notice this thought without analyzing, judging, identifying with it and let it arise and pass away

...............................................................

This is the practice I did for about 12 years and it is extremely powerful.  You can download this infographic to understand some basics of it: 

 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[Shanmugam]

and it is very important to not suppress the thoughts.. no thought should be suppressed and the thought flow should not be manipulated in any way

[Faceless]

Although I’m not familiar with sakshibhav this objective observation of thought is essential. To suppress thought is to change what is “fact” to what should be. “Idea” Good advice by @Shanmugam

[The White Belt]

@Shanmugam Thank you very much! Do you think that mindfulness of thought is more effective than mindfulness of bodily sensation? 

[Shanmugam]

@The White Belt Yes... Mindfulness of bodily sensations or breath is a beginner's practice.. You need to go to the next level.

In the original Buddhist version, it has been suggested to extend the mindfulness to cover the whole first-person subjective experience, including the thoughts and emotions.. Witnessing just the bodily sensation will only help you to disidentify yourself from the body, but for most of the people, their identification is with their mind.  Mindfulness of thoughts is very much essential to dis-identify from the mind.. And this is just one kind of self-inquiry and it is very effective.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Shanmugam

[deci belle]

Shanmugam has all the bases covered.

The disease is to be used as the cure. Whether mind is active or empty, just observe mind— there is no goal, no reason, no hurry.

The unbending intent to subtly scrutinize mental activity by silent illumination is one from beginning to end for one's whole lifetime.

Ultimately, continuous nonjudgemental concentration by subtle observation over a long period of time results in cessation of ingrained habitual patterns of self-reflective mentally chattering activity, and the flower of one's virtuous innate aware potential begins to open.

It is especially important to realize that when it seems most difficult to not get lost in obliviously following mental activity unawares— that is the most important time to redouble the fire of one's firm resolve. Conversely, when it is easy to maintain subtle concentration, then remove the fire and relax a bit. The idea is to keep "it" warm at all times, like a hen sending mental energy to the egg she is sitting on until it hatches.

Eventually, there will come a time when "dragging a boat through mud and water" will lessen and one will reach open water, which symbolizes the degree of self-refinement that results in realizing the nature of clarified consciousness for the first time. Then it gets easier.

Using objects or breathing or physical/psychosomatic exercises for conjuring mental focus is still using externals as a crutch— not because of the exercises themselves, but because of the nature of the rational mentality that perpetuates it reasons for being in the first place (that's ego's job).

We don't want to take ego's job away (it's impossible). We just want to re-orient ego's thinking reason for perpetuating itself at all costs and instead put its tireless efforts toward serving the recondite selfless shining mind that knows instantaneously beyond thought. We employ observation of mind to exercise the non-discursive quality of Mind at the expense of the self-consciousness of the individual's rationally neurotic patterns of mental activity.

If one needs the crutch, that is fine, but it is best when one is able, to use mind itself to gather mind. This is because there are no two minds. If you want to end up with the flower of mind's potential unfolding in perpetuity, it is essential to take up that potential from the beginning. Then you make your practice transcendent from the start and forever detach from remedial programs which often keep you in a "holding pattern" for lifetimes.

This is precisely the bane of religious programs of teaching tradition that only perpetuate themselves— one must be wary.