Last few observational thoughts on enlightenment

[Ocean]

I was always curious about the promotion of drugs to discover the Truth on here. From experience there was a need to be very rational, using direct everyday life just as it is (i.e. 'sober' consciousness) to eliminate what is not Truth to find what gets left after everything has been logically eliminated. As a byproduct revealing Truth.
Life is already a tough illusionary nut to crack and maya doesn't need more layers added to it than we already have to contend with.

This process of elimination takes time until reality becomes just as it is, without noise of what it is. What I find Leo doing here is great, it's a great playground for many to mature and take responsibility of their lives. Regarding guiding people to Truth there are many misconceptions and assumptions being displayed here, unintentionally, and therefore the blind could be leading the blind.

This is nothing new in life and if one is completely authentic there must be a serious case of "I don't really know, i just think I know" honesty and with that one should not teach what one does not know. Maya will play to the very end and continue her games.

She's playing me now by even posting this. I'm aware of how silly what i'm doing is, and yet, it seems to be happening. I was once in a position where I was being led down a path in which I eventually had to turn around, backtrack, and begin all over again from blank assumptions with no ideas from others.

It was the hardest thing at the time but had to happen as it means going completely alone and not relying on any others to distract you, including changes in states from drugs. When one has had enough of all the dead-ends, all with have to turn around and go it alone.

There is great joy in talking about this, while at the same time, completely pointless and just another trick of maya. It's one i'll accept for now as it seems less maya than promoting more of her. Then again, thats just what she want me to think. She won this time.

[lens]

everything is a trick of maya, everything is pointless, but it's fun asf no? Keep going until the fun ends, that's when you know progress is being made

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse There are two kinds of seekers, masters of self deception, and the absolute. ?

[cetus]

I'm for throwing it all out. But that's just me and I could be wrong. But who can say Samadhi isn't just another level of delusion that needs to be surrendered.

[lens]

@Mighty Mouse I agree 100% with what you said, isn't this pointless debating fun?

[lens]

@Mighty Mouse I think this forum will be getting you more angry than entertained 

 

Just remenbered: Maya wins again!

Edited January 26, 2018 by lens

[Ocean]

32 minutes ago, brovakhiin said:

@Mighty Mouse Party pooper

This is usually why important aspects get ignored. It's not fun to strip away things close to us.

One can miss the very obvious because of these stories and descriptions. It's always there and never can be anywhere else, so just look. Some might be disappointed in a way because there are no bells and whistles, just a clear recognition.

Things like letting go, surrendering, trust, and even love/acceptance are all byproducts of this recognition as one settles. Putting those before the cart is all mind/maya.

But don't believe me, or anyone else, find out yourself, I'm now just as bad and misguided as everyone else. I'm maya.

On the plus side I'm foolishly attempting to describe whats it is not. Which is helpful process all must take alone without any support or help from others.

Again not so fun, so most will ignore if they're enjoying life rather than seriously curious about it. Dropping the chase for enlightenment can be a massive weight of ones shoulders and leaves one to truly pursue the joys and lows life has to offer. As this is personal development forum some might want to leave all the enlightenment nonsense and put their energy on something that really matters to them.

In the end, you'll do what you do. As i'm doing now, so just relax and have fun, we might as well.

[Ocean]

3 minutes ago, Ocean said:

Things like letting go, surrendering, trust, and even love/acceptance are all byproducts of this recognition as one settles. Putting those before the cart is all mind/maya.

For clarity, after the fact, those words are themselves poor descriptions. They're close I guess, still not it though. Nothing can be. Thats just more noise and one attempting to use a shared language. You'll have to throw them out too if you want to get to the bottom of things.

[Ocean]

Thanks for the reminder. It was a fun attempt nonetheless but in the end, it's not what people want. It's not my platform and I don't want to spend my time ruining the movie for others.

 

@Leo Gura As Uncle Ben use to say, "with great power comes great responsibility"....wait no, sorry, that was Stan Lee, wait, or was it? Ah heck it's all the same thing in the end. Enjoy.

 

 

[SOUL]

 There was a time as a very young adult where this sort of discussion baffled my mind with all the conflicting ideas and the volume of information would serve as a distraction.

Although after many years of personal experience  in awakening consciousness there's such a degree of clarity it transcends understanding.

Now when I encounter these discussions  the effects of personal  experience in awakening consciousness in another shines through the chatter.

It isn't a matter of agreeing about ideas, it is recognizing the genuine nature of awakening that resonates in all consciousness and is not a mental understanding that comes from merely studying.

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by SOUL

[Ocean]

You know you're crazy when you find yourself arguing with ones self.

This has been fun. Despite the nonsense that came from me during this time, I guess I was testing something out. I can only pretend thats the case as thats all I can do now, is to pretend.

As I enjoyed memories of self-development, there are a few things that really skewed my search for the simple Truth once that became my new goal, when it still was part of self-development, rather than self-destruction.

Drugs will never get you there. It will create an experience, followed by whatever story you had of it. Elevating it to something you'll eventually have to move past from.

Asking random questions about enlightenment, along with all the answers, will just distract and load you up with more to get rid of once the real work begins. Before asking anything, find out for yourself. Don't be lazy and assume others can ever know more than you.

Discovering the so called Truth is never that fun. It will take everything from you. So if you really need to know, you'll never really stop, no matter how many egoic hoildays you take. In that regard, it's all good.

Just remember. All the people that found it used only their experience in front of them, they used one tool diligently, and they never stopped no matter how uncomfortable it became.

It's free, cheap and everyone can do it. You can maybe see why it's better/more profitable of talking about the place rather than pointing the right way so people to see it clearly, just as it is, and in the process lose a person/customer that might end up as follower of a stucture where this none.

Wait, all the above is bullshit, less bullshit maybe, but still bullshit. Enjoy.

[SOUL]

On 1/26/2018 at 6:28 AM, Mighty Mouse said:

Absolute infinity has no parts. Truth has no facets. Enlightenment is an all or nothing deal and anything less than that is not it.

There are merely your own beliefs from your own experience and are not everyone's, the sooner you realize this the sooner you stop trying to convince others that their experience is exactly like your own.

[Ocean]

3 hours ago, SOUL said:

There are merely your own beliefs from your own experience and are not everyone's, the sooner you realize this the sooner you stop trying to convince others that their experience is exactly like your own.

What if it’s not a belief and just an description? One that most can’t grasp or are comfortable with.

In many ways everyone’s experience from the step back position, is the same. The only difference is the baggage of things we identify with which makes things very different. 

I still in many ways want to be proved wrong, none of Leo’s or anybody else response can real sway the Truth of things as in the quote you quote, it’s all or nothing. 

And that’s why is so easy to see it in others, especially those that try and teach others without doing any real work to get there. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ocean

[Nahm]

It’s still experiential. 

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Ocean said:

What if it’s not a belief and just an description? One that most can’t grasp or are comfortable with.

In many ways everyone’s experience from the step back position, is the same. The only difference is the baggage of things we identify with which makes things very different. 

I still in many ways want to be proved wrong, none of Leo’s or anybody else response can real sway the Truth of things as in the quote you quote, it’s all or nothing. 

And that’s why is so easy to see it in others, especially those that try and teach others without doing any real work to get there. 

Belief is just our trust that something exists or is true so a description can be a belief if we trust that it's the way it is.

Truth is a comparison of what is asserted that it is compared to what actually is. So truth is a relative term that depends on a standard which may be subjectively attained but it is objectively compared.

 

[Nahm]

Above all else, experience. Listen, deduce, but don’t believe what anyone says, obviously including me, and anyone who posts pages of what someone else says versus trying to atleast communicate their own experience. What’s on pages, lol, is not the Truth. Understanding conjecture and conflation are pretty important. Living vicariously is not the same as living.  Truth isn’t relative, it’s absolute. That’s a huge problem if you think you’ve experienced the truth and haven’t experienced the absolute / what you are. An even bigger problem if you have hinged your freedom from self deception contingent on being wrong. I would not want to swallow that one. 

[Ocean]

@SOUL Sure. The second one attempts to even bring it up, it all becomes relative and not Truth. But thats the playground and language is the sandpit we find ourselves in. So it's all relative in this domain. Speaking about it creates a separation and makes it into something it's not and that's why I'm just as deluded as everyone else right now, out of choice I like to pretend. No speaking about it, it's all as it should be and life goes on. I guess i'm creating problems because I miss them. 

[SOUL]

11 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Yes, deer.

[SOUL]

@Ocean  Actually, truth doesn't even exist until someone tries to speak it and no amount of capitalization changes that.

It's sort of like how in the double slit experiment the photon is a wave until it is observed and then collapses into a particle. What is behaves one way unobserved and behaves another way observed.

So truth is a subjectively assessed standard that we make  objective comparisons to but each one of us  subjectively experiences it and have our own standard.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by SOUL

[Ocean]

@SOUL 

The wave-aicle thing I touched upon in the reality vs game thread. All still content (which is enjoyable btw) so not much to relate too. Can you use something else that isn't content to describe your position?