Why does Leo seem so certain?

[Leo Gura]

49 minutes ago, lens said:

 

@Leo Gura can you explain something to me? When you say he "doesn't explain the entire field" do you mean there is something missing in spirituality or to truth? which one do you take priority on? Because i've seen the forum from a far for a while and i see a lot of talks about chakras, love, third eye,  and i'm not denying it, but i feel like it's more of a distraction of a happy feeling for the ego than actually doing the work to unconver the delusion. isn't the point to wake up? what would matter if some stuff would be left out if it didn't impact the end result?

That's a great question. The answer is nuanced.

Ultimately, if all your care about is 100% truth, then by all means go balls to the wall with uprooting all your beliefs and go straight for the Absolute.

But even so, keep in mind that it might not be so simple. The technique you choose to do that might not click with you, and you might find yourself stuck. What do you do then? What do you do after you've done 2000 hours of self-inquiry but still haven't broken through? You start wondering that maybe you need a different technique. Maybe this technique you've been doing does not address all the obstacles in your way? Maybe your 2nd chakra is blocked so you can't stop daydreaming about sex? Maybe you're addicted to food, or porn, or internet. Maybe you have ADD and can't focus long enough to have the technique work. Maybe you need a more heart-centered, less logical technique? And the technique you're currently using doesn't address that.

How would you know which technique to use in the first place? Based on who's authority? Will you trust Jed McKenna? Or Sadhguru? Or Echkart Tolle? Or Neo-Advaita? How will you know who is right?

And how will you go about integrating your awakening experiences even if you have them? And how will you know when you're done? And what will be your attitude towards all the other spiritual teachers and students? Will you become a curmudgeon like U.G. Krishnamurti? Will you throw everything in the trash like Jed McKenna? Will you tell people that meditation is bullshit? And how will you explain kundalini energy? How will you explain channeling? How will you explain out of body experience, near death experience, entities, deities, people seeing auras, healing, siddhis, paranormal phenomena, etc? Will you just say all of that is ego-delusions and unworthy of any attention?

And even after you attain the Absolute, what then? What about all your bad habits? What about your relationships? What about your career? Are you now instantly conscious of all of the nuances in all of these areas? Have you mastered your emotions? Have you mastered consciousness of your body and energy? Guess again.

My approach is to take all these factors seriously, rather than hand-waving them away. Because I do not know the true nature of these things until I have thoroughly researched and experimented with them.

For me the point is accurate and broad understanding of life.

Some people consider Charles Manson woken up. Some people consider Sam Harris woken up. And? So? What does "waking up" really mean for you? How you do know your notions of "waking up" are correct?

[Ocean]

Deleted. Maya hooked me again. Enjoy

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ocean

[lens]

@Leo Gura All though I don't fully agree with what you said i'll keep an open mind and think about it, cheers

[Leo Gura]

Yes, judge for yourselves folks. I'm just offering my opinions based on my research. Your conclusions may be different.

[Gopackgo]

I mean, if interest arises spontaneously, it seems like a broad sampling of what resonates to each person is ideal. Reality is composed of perspectives, so it seems like the more perspectives that are understood, the more open you are to what is. There is a shift that happens where you stop comparing your experience against what others say that it should be like to where you focus on your direct experience and find meaning in a lot of different perspectives. That's a big difference, and to be honest, given the nature of reality, it would seem that it's obvious that different perspectives are going to resonate to different styles of teaching. The more perspectives you can accommodate without conflict, the more readily you can understand reality, because you can only draw on what you already understand.  If there is some perspective that doesnt work for you, that doesnt mean that it is invalid in the terms of absolute truth. In that way, I really find Leo's videos to be useful because they expose me to more than one way of thinking/perspective. As he has gone on, he has gotten softer and softer in what he thinks the right way is, which also rings true to me, because in the end, we are talking about unknowing. 

[eskwire]

16 hours ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Yes but that different way of living doesn't hinge on enlightenment, so it's not evidence of enlightenment. Enlightenment is not the natural state

People always assume it is because that's what they've heard, but it's not in and of itself. It's just something you pass through along the way.

This is where the difference between growth and truth becomes crucial.

Neti neti...

I don't think we are talking about the same "state," but thaz ok. Have a nice weekend!

[Dodo]

20 hours ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Yes but that different way of living doesn't hinge on enlightenment, so it's not evidence of enlightenment. Enlightenment is not the natural state

People always assume it is because that's what they've heard, but it's not in and of itself. It's just something you pass through along the way.

This is where the difference between growth and truth becomes crucial.

Neti neti...

Enlightenment is realising yourself as Parabrahman. Beyond being and non-being.

This is not hard to communicate, so your lack of direction of what Enlightenment is shows me you yourself don't know.

At the same time you have strong opinions on what it's not. Ego seeps through your comments like a volcano on steroids.

Enlightenment is indeed realising your true nature. Perhaps it happens on stages - First you realize your true nature is being/consciousness , then that it is beyond being and non-being. 

Ofcourse enlightenment means realising your true nature. Your comments show me you've got no clue and just want to look flashy with your comments and try shake the ground for others with fake wisdom. 

PS: Don't take this too seriously, I'm busting your balls

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Dodo

[Ocean]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, judge for yourselves folks. I'm just offering my opinions based on my research. Your conclusions may be different.

I should know better but it seems like i'm having to get involved. Ah well.

The operative word in the above is 'research'. If you are teaching others about this, it should come from a place of knowing. This is what I meant in a previous post/thread of it could be the blind leading the blind. Just in this one area. The whole assisting and guiding people to become better versions of themselves and enjoy life more, you're doing great at. Not that you need a piece of random text on a forum to say so.

I'll now repeat what I said in the previous deleted post, as to, hopefully, make one last pointless point.

[Ocean]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's a great question. The answer is nuanced.

Ultimately, if all your care about is 100% truth, then by all means go balls to the wall with uprooting all your beliefs and go straight for the Absolute.

But even so, keep in mind that it might not be so simple. The technique you choose to do that might not click with you, and you might find yourself stuck. What do you do then? What do you do after you've done 2000 hours of self-inquiry but still haven't broken through? You start wondering that maybe you need a different technique. Maybe this technique you've been doing does not address all the obstacles in your way? Maybe your 2nd chakra is blocked so you can't stop daydreaming about sex? Maybe you're addicted to food, or porn, or internet. Maybe you have ADD and can't focus long enough to have the technique work. Maybe you need a more heart-centered, less logical technique? And the technique you're currently using doesn't address that.

How would you know which technique to use in the first place? Based on who's authority? Will you trust Jed McKenna? Or Sadhguru? Or Echkart Tolle? Or Neo-Advaita? How will you know who is right?

And how will you go about integrating your awakening experiences even if you have them? And how will you know when you're done? And what will be your attitude towards all the other spiritual teachers and students? Will you become a curmudgeon like U.G. Krishnamurti? Will you throw everything in the trash like Jed McKenna? Will you tell people that meditation is bullshit? And how will you explain kundalini energy? How will you explain channeling? How will you explain out of body experience, near death experience, entities, deities, people seeing auras, healing, siddhis, paranormal phenomena, etc? Will you just say all of that is ego-delusions and unworthy of any attention?

And even after you attain the Absolute, what then? What about all your bad habits? What about your relationships? What about your career? Are you now instantly conscious of all of the nuances in all of these areas? Have you mastered your emotions? Have you mastered consciousness of your body and energy? Guess again.

My approach is to take all these factors seriously, rather than hand-waving them away. Because I do not know the true nature of these things until I have thoroughly researched and experimented with them.

For me the point is accurate and broad understanding of life.

Some people consider Charles Manson woken up. Some people consider Sam Harris woken up. And? So? What does "waking up" really mean for you? How you do know your notions of "waking up" are correct?

You've asked a lot of questions, many which one wouldn't need to ask or worry about if they were serious. They are just more ego distractions to save itself and keep the mind active on the wrong places. Good questions don't look like them.

A lot of it can be summed as just going alone, starting again as you've never read anything and finding out for yourself. Use the foundation of an approach (who am I, neti neti, is this true) and discover for yourself. Maybe if you uncover what it might (not) be, go back and check what they are saying matches the same recognition. You'll then maybe see how they themselves are unknowingly supporting the illusion by talking and describing it as much as they do to their followers.

Regarding the bold, yes, they are all distraction. Fun ones. But distractions. They are what some call, spiritual materialism. It was a playground I was familiar so i'm not saying they are not real per se, but one important discovery made me abandon them all. They all pre-suppose and promote 'separation' and the big one pre-suppose and promote a personal and others identity.

I had to throw them out, and yes, you kinda do have to be ruthless with this as ego is attached to a lot and maya is a trickster. It will very hard if one has as spent years in a place that supports a false self.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ocean
clairty

[Leo Gura]

@Ocean

Too flippant, too simplisitic.

What you call a place of knowing, could be your blindspot. The point is you cannot know until you have tried a thing. And you cannot try a thing until you have researched it with an open mind.

[Ocean]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Ocean

Too flippant, too simplisitic.

What you call a place of knowing, could be your blindspot. The point is you cannot know until you have tried a thing. And you cannot try a thing until you have researched it with an open mind.

I'm very open to that blindspot comment, as my errors became more important than my beliefs. And yet after rigorous testing and failings (like posting here) the answer always comes back the same.

On some level I was hoping for a more substantial reply to confirm I'm as deluded as everyone else when it comes to this.

And from what happened, it's wasn't flippant or simplistic in the slightest. It was very challenging and complex and there was a lot of wasted time as I was holding on to things I wasn't even aware of.

I'll leave now unless someone else engages and is curious about all this silliness.

[stevegan928]

@Mighty Mouse who is JM?

[Nahm]

@stevegan928 Jed MCKenna. I read some of his writing yesterday to get a better understanding. It’s clear to me now that he uses a fake name because he is a fake, in the sense he understands truth very well, but has not actually experienced it himself, so he misunderstands the entirety due to this. This left him with Nihilism. Hopefully he kept going. Seems like a nice guy, very smart, but smart is not nearly enough.

[Nahm]

There are two kinds of people, those who have experienced God, and those who have not.?❤️

[Ocean]

17 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

She's the one you're talking to and she's the one responding.

Thank you for calling out my delusional behaviour. This kinda of reply might make want others to really listen to something that comes from you. It's strange when you are aware you're doing it and when you're not. When it's seen through it can't be unseen. It's also strange to care enough to get involved, people talking from beliefs will never change, so I might as well, sit back and see perfection in the imperfections, and post if I post....for now.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Ocean

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse Thanks!❤️? If you were tasked with showing a mind in a box that it is in a box, when it insists it is not in a box, how would you go about it?

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse Right. Obviously. Can’t experience what you are and give up. Keep going! It’s so worthwhile there are just no words. It takes everything, even creating the experience itself. You know, what bothers an individual is not actually outside, but within, just as there is no actual experience of any ‘thing’ outside. 

So contemplate on why a guy who’s always talking about love, bothers you. It’s far more simple and obvious than you are realizing. My ‘advantage’, is that I am not as intelligent as you. I had less grasping. I had less to let go of. 

 

[tecladocasio]

@Leo Gura,@Mighty Mouse, @Nahm

This really became a non-dual politics : arguments , assumptions , ''clever'' answers ... 

You can say a ton of words but really ... you don't know nothing about it 

[Nahm]

@tecladocasio TO YOU!!!! ??????? Don’t be the fool.   Do the meditation, do the self inquiry, take the trips. Don’t believe anybody to discover what you are!!! Obviously! ?

[tecladocasio]

@Nahm I was saying more to mighty mouse and leo with all his debates , i'm doing my work man ... i mentioned you cause you and mighty seem to have some fight in all posts hahahh