Is Strong Determination Sitting Supposed To Be Hellish?

[Guest]

I just performed my first strong determination sit with a goal of 2hrs 15 mins but only made it to 90 minutes. After probably the first 10 minutes (I had no clock in view) I felt like I was going insane. I started crying without tears, burst into maniacal laughter,  and had the most intense sexual urges I had ever experienced. Furthermore, I felt like I was going to die the whole time(why?). When I usually meditate I feel fairly relaxed, but this time my body felt like doing this was going to tear apart and the back of my seat was going to cut through my spine. It isn't a super comfortable chair, but its not a torture device. 

I also started reliving all my past traumas and experienced the full intensity of about every emotion I could think of, especially pain and horniness.  Toward the end I started rationalizing things and fighting back:

"Of course I exist!"

"Fuck this enlightenment bullshit!"

"No,no, I have to do this. My suffering is just an illusion."

"I just have to accept this and make peace with it. *Gain peace of mind for about 5 seconds*

"What the fuck, why won't it stop!"

"WHY?WHY?!WHY!!?"

"I'm GOING CRAZY. I AM INSANEEEEEEE HAHAHAHA"

Basically, I felt as though I was expressing the same profound neuroticism , I recalled from all my worst past emotional breakdowns, except this was even more intense. I can't even recall the sequence of thoughts in a coherent fashion, it's all so blurry and disjointed. I couldn't feel the passage of time.

 

Did I do this correctly, or did I just torture myself? What the heck was the hell I just experienced?

Edited February 29, 2016 by Saitama

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Saitama said:

Did I do this correctly, or did I just torture myself? What the heck was the hell I just experienced?

Maan, I love your post. You have just summed up my first strong determination sittings. You're doing great. You probably have just purged the amount of shit you would've with 3 months of normal "bliss" meditation. Look the next days for some silence and peace in your head. Maybe you'll find some.

But, if you want to make this a habit (what I can really recommend) I'd definitely say you start off a little slower. Cut back some minutes, maybe go with 30-60 minutes at first and sit this through for a few dozen times. What will happen is if you do that you will be in complete peace and silence after you've transcended this time span.

Then maybe go a little bit on. Cheers to you, can you see how this could be the fastest way of waking up? It just rips everything out of you, throws it in your face and lets it crash onto the floor. That is real progress.

[Guest]

@Arik Not gonna lie-- I was hoping someone would say there's no need to do this and I would realize the real deal is a lot easier. Oh well, gotta do what you gotta do. I think I'll start with 30 so I don't go completely mad during a sit and stab myself to death or something.

[Azrael]

@Saitama, sounds like a great idea. Truth is, you'll do a few dozen sits and through that your whole relationship to pain and suffering will completely change. I mean it will change to the point that you can be at complete peace with pain. You can actually get ecstasy out of it. But to get to this, you gotta commit to the hard work first. But it will be worth it, dude.

I illustrated the purging process with an analogy I borrowed from Alan Watts in this post, you maybe wanna check it out. It gives you some perspective:

Cheers to you, you just started digging the gold

[Guest]

@Arik Do you do this every day?

[Daryn]

Arik - Like you I was also quite inspired by Leo's video on this topic.  I think this is my second favorite (behind the Free Will video) Leo video.

I have been meditating for many years as I was taught Transcendental mediation in the early 1990's.  I thought Strong Determination Sitting (SDS) sounded a little odd because the TM people suggest that you shouldn't meditate more that 20 minutes.

After giving this a whirl I can see huge value in this and what is does for mindfulness.  It seems like a lot of people have trouble getting over 90 minutes.

After practicing this and watching my thoughts what I found interesting is all the excuses that would come up in my head about why I should look up at the clock, maybe get up and have my morning coffee, why I should get up because I have already done enough ect.....After this I started to notice how thoughts would come up in the day that were truly limiting in nature (just excuses popping up about everything) that I never paid any attention to.  It has really been quite an eye opener.

The experience of the sitting and being with discomfort is quite interesting as well.  My knee was really getting sore in one sit and I stayed with it.  It was really odd because as I sat with it I had the experience of the discomfort actually being distinct from me and it floated away.  It was quite something.

Anyway - there is something to this foresure.

Peace out.

[Kedar]

I watched Leo's video on this topic 3 months back, and since then I have been doing strong determination sitting for 1 hour daily. Some weekends, I do 8 hour strong determination sittings too, 1 hour each sitting. Oh Man, it altogether puts me into a different world, feeling after 2 or 3 sittings, I just can't express in words. I cry many times with happiness and calmness engulfing my whole body after 2-3 sessions are over. This is just awesome.

[Leo Gura]

@Saitama Welcome to REAL personal development It's not the rainbows and butterflies people sold you.

[Azrael]

7 hours ago, Saitama said:

@Arik Do you do this every day?

Yep, but as I mentioned you will transcend your normal sitting time - for me it's 60 minutes in the morning - so it doesn't matter if I move or don't move. I do not feel any pain or discomfort, my body just sleeps and I feel completely paralyzed after a few minutes. It's really nice.

On good evenings I push my limits. Currently I'm working on sitting 120 minutes without pain. I can do it with pain and suffering but I'll need some more sits to get through that. 120 minutes is a number though ...

[Ayla]

10 hours ago, Saitama said:

I just performed my first strong determination sit with a goal of 2hrs 15 mins but only made it to 90 minutes. After probably the first 10 minutes (I had no clock in view) I felt like I was going insane. I started crying without tears, burst into maniacal laughter,  and had the most intense sexual urges I had ever experienced. Furthermore, I felt like I was going to die the whole time(why?). When I usually meditate I feel fairly relaxed, but this time my body felt like doing this was going to tear apart and the back of my seat was going to cut through my spine. It isn't a super comfortable chair, but its not a torture device. 

I also started reliving all my past traumas and experienced the full intensity of about every emotion I could think of, especially pain and horniness.  Toward the end I started rationalizing things and fighting back:

"Of course I exist!"

"Fuck this enlightenment bullshit!"

"No,no, I have to do this. My suffering is just an illusion."

"I just have to accept this and make peace with it. *Gain peace of mind for about 5 seconds*

"What the fuck, why won't it stop!"

"WHY?WHY?!WHY!!?"

"I'm GOING CRAZY. I AM INSANEEEEEEE HAHAHAHA"

Basically, I felt as though I was expressing the same profound neuroticism , I recalled from all my worst past emotional breakdowns, except this was even more intense. I can't even recall the sequence of thoughts in a coherent fashion, it's all so blurry and disjointed. I couldn't feel the passage of time.

 

Did I do this correctly, or did I just torture myself? What the heck was the hell I just experienced?

This hell - this performance - is not doing anything to YOU! You are the one watching this. This is only happening to what you are not  

[Guest]

Idk why but when I did my first strong determination sit I didn't feel anything unusual (I went for 60 min). I was sitting still, not moving at all, and all I had to deal with was my legs hurting a little by the end of the meditation. What did I do wrong? 

[Azrael]

11 minutes ago, tropicana said:

What did I do wrong? 

If you really didn't move, nothing. That's the whole technique. I'd guess that you sat on a chair OR you have some meditation experience OR you're just a very chilled dude with not as much tension in your body as I had when I started out. (We are all individuals and start off from different points with that.)

So here is what you can do:

• increase your sitting to 90 minutes and try it again
• try it with a cushion on the floor in a lotus like posture (I go with Burmese for example)

Pain will come my friend if you use one of these two points or both.

[Emerald]

16 hours ago, Saitama said:

I just performed my first strong determination sit with a goal of 2hrs 15 mins but only made it to 90 minutes. After probably the first 10 minutes (I had no clock in view) I felt like I was going insane. I started crying without tears, burst into maniacal laughter,  and had the most intense sexual urges I had ever experienced. Furthermore, I felt like I was going to die the whole time(why?). When I usually meditate I feel fairly relaxed, but this time my body felt like doing this was going to tear apart and the back of my seat was going to cut through my spine. It isn't a super comfortable chair, but its not a torture device. 

I also started reliving all my past traumas and experienced the full intensity of about every emotion I could think of, especially pain and horniness.  Toward the end I started rationalizing things and fighting back:

"Of course I exist!"

"Fuck this enlightenment bullshit!"

"No,no, I have to do this. My suffering is just an illusion."

"I just have to accept this and make peace with it. *Gain peace of mind for about 5 seconds*

"What the fuck, why won't it stop!"

"WHY?WHY?!WHY!!?"

"I'm GOING CRAZY. I AM INSANEEEEEEE HAHAHAHA"

Basically, I felt as though I was expressing the same profound neuroticism , I recalled from all my worst past emotional breakdowns, except this was even more intense. I can't even recall the sequence of thoughts in a coherent fashion, it's all so blurry and disjointed. I couldn't feel the passage of time.

 

Did I do this correctly, or did I just torture myself? What the heck was the hell I just experienced?

The thing that helps me get through strong determination sits is to occasionally give myself internal affirmations like "This moment is the only moment I have to deal with." I'll even lie to myself and internally say "It's okay. I just sat down one second ago." if I'm closer to the end of my sit. The thing that makes strong determination sitting so hellish is that your physical sensations and your thoughts multiply together to make hell. But if you can be aware enough to separate thoughts and sensations, it will be exponentially more manageable. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Arik said:

Yep, but as I mentioned you will transcend your normal sitting time - for me it's 60 minutes in the morning - so it doesn't matter if I move or don't move. I do not feel any pain or discomfort, my body just sleeps and I feel completely paralyzed after a few minutes. It's really nice.

On good evenings I push my limits. Currently I'm working on sitting 120 minutes without pain. I can do it with pain and suffering but I'll need some more sits to get through that. 120 minutes is a number though ...

Do you still make enlightenment gains during the 60 minute ones where there is no pain anymore?

[Emerald]

 

This video is about strong determination sitting and has a lot of great information about how to deal with physical discomfort and mental urges without going completely insane.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Emerald Wilkins

[Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Saitama said:

Do you still make enlightenment gains during the 60 minute ones where there is no pain anymore?

Interesting question! But, yes of course. My daily meditation still purges shit out of my system, brings it to the top so that I have to deal with it. This is now of course at a slower pace then if you are just starting out. But I still have the typical meditation cycles in which I feel good at some times and bad at others. It is just that I am through that a few dozen times so that I approach it completely different then let's say 7 months ago.

What I do to keep pushing it is that I sit in some evenings and push it to 120 minutes. That will release new "rocks of shit" out of your system that then swim in your waters and you have to hammer them away with your daily meditation / or during the day. Hope, that analogy helps to illustrate the process a little.

In the end goal I shoot for sitting 8 hours without moving. I think I will awaken that way. So I planned the next 5-10 years to achieve that.

Now, what if I can sit for 8 hours straight and didn't awake on the way? Actually, I don't care to much anymore for that. If you are able to sit for 8 hours without moving your life has completely transformed and this will change every cell of your being. From what I experienced so far with this. So awaking is just some side product of that probably.

[Guest]

@Arik No, I was actually sitting in a lotus like position  it was all serious ? Ok, I'll do 90 min as soon as I can  Or maybe even 2 hours

[Guest]

Eyes closed or eyes open? 

[Guest]

@TwoDays Doing it with eye closed will be more intense, from my experience. It should be VERY uncomfortable without hurting the body. The point is to have nothing to distract you from the pain, and you just sit there. It's like under going torture.

[theinevitableandi]

On 2/29/2016 at 6:43 AM, Emerald Wilkins said:

The thing that helps me get through strong determination sits is to occasionally give myself internal affirmations like "This moment is the only moment I have to deal with." I'll even lie to myself and internally say "It's okay. I just sat down one second ago." if I'm closer to the end of my sit. The thing that makes strong determination sitting so hellish is that your physical sensations and your thoughts multiply together to make hell. But if you can be aware enough to separate thoughts and sensations, it will be exponentially more manageable. 

Notice that there is someone who is always trying to run away from thoughts or run away from this or that... the mind is always trying . It cannot stand being at rest so it tries to find a solution to "END" this torture... Honestly guys this Torture aka "THOUGHTS" is just your mind purging... its true you are going to want to resist and run away and end it and feel like nothing is working because the mind is going EFFFING NUTS! but this is a really good sign...  let it purge / scream / and say all the dirty nasty evil things it wants to say... Your Job is just to be aware , be the background , be the watcher.... hope this helps someone ! <3 you guys!