Only men can achieve enlightenment?

[ZX_man]

Hi all. I was told that some buddhists believe that women are unable to achieve nirvana/enlightenment. Their only hope for liberation is to be reincarnated as a male. 

So, what gives? Where did this belief come from? Anyone have any insight on this?

Here are some resources I found on the matter:

http://newbuddhist.com/discussion/21694/only-men-find-nirvana

http://buddhists.livejournal.com/740846.html

https://protectingnyingma2.wordpress.com/2012/04/19/can-women-achieve-enlightenment/

[electroBeam]

its because semen is used to go through a kundalini awakening, which women ofcourse don't have. 

Now why are you so worried about not being able to become enlightened? Do you even know what enlightenment is? How do you even know if its real or not?

See the whole point of the message from enlightenment teachers, is that to be happier you need to let go of all of the stories in your head. 

And here you are, scared of loosing a story called 'enlightenment' all because you heard another story about women not being able to achieve this story called 'enlightenment'.

You shouldn't be seeking enlightenment. If you are you're no better than someone who seeks money, fame, success in general. All of you are seeking a made up story, a pot at the end of the rainbow.

Its pretty obvious that the more intune you get with understanding what's not real, the happier and more peaceful you are. Is it really that hard to just do that? Why do you need to masturbate over what buddhist monks say and what people say enlightenment is?

[Leo Gura]

@ZX_man Nonsense. This is why we question dogma and think for ourselves rather than listening to Buddhist scriptures.

"Man" or "Woman" is a false identity anyhow.

What you are isn't a man or woman. And in fact, your consciousness is identical to that of every other living creature, from an ant to an elephant to a space alien. All of you are identical.

[MM1988]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@ZX_man Nonsense. This is why we question dogma and think for ourselves rather than listening to Buddhist scriptures.

"Man" or "Woman" is a false identity anyhow.

What you are isn't a man or woman. And in fact, your consciousness is identical to that of every other living creature, from an ant to an elephant to a space alien. All of you are identical.

But you can't deny that animals are unable to become enlightened right? 

 

[student]

People with an attraction to unknown, to progress, to truth, will always go only forward, regardless the opinions of others, beliefs, ideas. The knowing of a truth being out there is too strong to be destroyed by a mere opinion, idea.

If you don't know women that are sincere seekers, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Leo Gura]

@MM1988 Animals don't need to become enlightened, they're already surrendered to reality. They have no illusion of doership. They already flow. Which is why you don't find depressed cats.

The only one who needs to become enlightened is YOU. Nobody else. Once you are enlightened, the whole world is enlightened because you are the world.

[MM1988]

@Leo Gura They haven't surrendered to reality at all. They may have no concepts about it but their life is a constant struggle for sex und survival and they don't have the conciousness to break out of it. Would you describe a mentally handicapped person as enlightened? This concept is so paradoxical to me. Why not give yourself lobotomy then, wouldnt that enlighten you instantly.

[Akim]

 

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Which is why you don't find depressed cats.

Animals can be depressed though.

"Beaver said major changes in a dog’s life could lead to periods of depression. Those include moving into a new home, a new spouse or baby in the household, or adding another pet. Even a change in the dog’s schedule, for instance a stay-at-home owner who takes a job, can cause a dog to get down.

But the two most common triggers of severe dog depression are the loss of a companion animal or the loss of an owner."

"Dog depression symptoms are very similar to those in people, said John Ciribassi, DVM, past president of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. “Dogs will become withdrawn. They become inactive. Their eating and sleeping habits often change. They don’t participate in the things they once enjoyed.”

But vets warn those symptoms also can mean a dog has a medical problem, so the first course of action should always be a full checkup by a veterinarian. A pet that mopes around and no longer wants to go for walks could simply have pain from arthritis, Beaver says."

https://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/depression-in-dogs#1

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, MM1988 said:

@Leo Gura They haven't surrendered to reality at all. They may have no concepts about it but their life is a constant struggle for sex und survival and they don't have the conciousness to break out of it. Would you describe a mentally handicapped person as enlightened? This concept is so paradoxical to me. Why not give yourself lobotomy then, wouldnt that enlighten you instantly.

Life is a constant struggle for physical survival. This is true for lions and antelope as it is for an enlightenment master in a Zen monastery. Modern society just allows us to outsource much of the "dirty work" of survival. But survival must still take place if the physical body is to stay alive for longer than a few weeks.

Enlightenment actually deactivates the Default Mode Network in the brain. So it's sort of like getting a lobotomy. You basically go brain dead at the deepest levels of enlightenment.

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, Akim said:

 

Animals can be depressed though.

"Beaver said major changes in a dog’s life could lead to periods of depression. Those include moving into a new home, a new spouse or baby in the household, or adding another pet. Even a change in the dog’s schedule, for instance a stay-at-home owner who takes a job, can cause a dog to get down.

But the two most common triggers of severe dog depression are the loss of a companion animal or the loss of an owner."

"Dog depression symptoms are very similar to those in people, said John Ciribassi, DVM, past president of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. “Dogs will become withdrawn. They become inactive. Their eating and sleeping habits often change. They don’t participate in the things they once enjoyed.”

But vets warn those symptoms also can mean a dog has a medical problem, so the first course of action should always be a full checkup by a veterinarian. A pet that mopes around and no longer wants to go for walks could simply have pain from arthritis, Beaver says."

https://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/depression-in-dogs#1

That is interesting. Yes, I supposed in practice even dogs have a sort of proto-ego, because they are rather advanced animals.

But usually, animals are surrendered to the moment. Even if they are sad or angry, it's less of an ego thing than with humans.

Enlightened people can also be sad or angry. They just don't resist it so much.

[Shin]

Buddhists also worship Buddha as if he was some kind of deity.

They don't even think they can reach his level of enlightenment.

Worse than that, they think enlightenment can't be achieved in this life ...

[pluto]

Once you are enlightened, the whole world is enlightened because you are the world. - Leo Gura

[Leo Gura]

29 minutes ago, Shin said:

Buddhists also worship Buddha as if he was some kind of deity.

They don't even think they can reach his level of enlightenment.

Worse than that, they think enlightenment can't be achieved in this life ...

Which is a commonly recognized trap: "When you meet the Buddha, kill him."

But of course, saying it and doing it are two very different things.

The problem with devotional paths is that the devotional figure itself becomes the chief obstacle. It happens all too often with Christians. They are too afraid to realize that they literally are Christ.

[sarapr]

@ZX_man In fact I think women have it easier to achieve enlightenment because women generally have an attitude of surrendering to what is rather that fighting against it like most men do .

[SOUL]

Anybody can awaken to being as long as they are asleep to it, except animals, they aren't asleep to being.

Yes, your dog and cat are a zen master always being, what's your excuse? Haha.

[Dodo]

11 hours ago, MM1988 said:

But you can't deny that animals are unable to become enlightened right? 

 

Ramana Maharshi's cow

Gosh darn, even a cow can get enlightened Im such a failure boohooo

Edited January 25, 2018 by Dodo

[Dodo]

11 hours ago, electroBeam said:

its because semen is used to go through a kundalini awakening, which women ofcourse don't have. 

Now why are you so worried about not being able to become enlightened? Do you even know what enlightenment is? How do you even know if its real or not?

See the whole point of the message from enlightenment teachers, is that to be happier you need to let go of all of the stories in your head. 

And here you are, scared of loosing a story called 'enlightenment' all because you heard another story about women not being able to achieve this story called 'enlightenment'.

You shouldn't be seeking enlightenment. If you are you're no better than someone who seeks money, fame, success in general. All of you are seeking a made up story, a pot at the end of the rainbow.

Its pretty obvious that the more intune you get with understanding what's not real, the happier and more peaceful you are. Is it really that hard to just do that? Why do you need to masturbate over what buddhist monks say and what people say enlightenment is?

Kundalini is not enlightenment, at best it's a goodie for those with good karma or something.

I intuit the very reason we speak about Ego so much in the spiritual path is for something like this happens - like Kundalini. You can become so egoic because of your powers that you won't even blink an eye. When you have power, that's when the true test is. 

You can say there's no ego all you want, but when power comes, that's when you show what you're made of. 

Edited January 25, 2018 by Dodo

[eputkonen]

12 hours ago, ZX_man said:

Hi all. I was told that some buddhists believe that women are unable to achieve nirvana/enlightenment. Their only hope for liberation is to be reincarnated as a male. 

So, what gives? Where did this belief come from? Anyone have any insight on this?

Many religions and faiths become corrupted over time.  The Buddha said women can achieve nirvana/enlightenment...it is not barred because they are women.

Quote

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address.  – SN 5.2

Enlightenment is seeing through the illusions of the mind and dispelling ignorance.  It is ignorance to identify with the body's gender and think this helps or hinders nirvana/enlightenment.  Enlightenment comes down to realizing what-is as it is...which is neither male, nor female nor both, nor neither.

[Kserkkj]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@MM1988 Animals don't need to become enlightened, they're already surrendered to reality. They have no illusion of doership. They already flow. Which is why you don't find depressed cats.

The only one who needs to become enlightened is YOU. Nobody else. Once you are enlightened, the whole world is enlightened because you are the world.

The Way The Human Being Is Brought Into Existence. It Is Far More Complex Than You Think. One Goes Through Many Cycles Of Evolution To  Reach The Ordinance Of Evolution. AKA The Advanced Evolution Program Begins As A Being Attains The Required Understandings Of The Spiritual Plan. To Reach This Level Of Evolution, An Energy (Not Precisely What Is Thought, It Is More Of An Entity) Must Go Through The Evolutionary Tableau. This Much To Be Said For Now. 

 

[Venus]

9 hours ago, Akim said:

 

Animals can be depressed though.

"Beaver said major changes in a dog’s life could lead to periods of depression. Those include moving into a new home, a new spouse or baby in the household, or adding another pet. Even a change in the dog’s schedule, for instance a stay-at-home owner who takes a job, can cause a dog to get down.

But the two most common triggers of severe dog depression are the loss of a companion animal or the loss of an owner."

"Dog depression symptoms are very similar to those in people, said John Ciribassi, DVM, past president of the American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior. “Dogs will become withdrawn. They become inactive. Their eating and sleeping habits often change. They don’t participate in the things they once enjoyed.”

But vets warn those symptoms also can mean a dog has a medical problem, so the first course of action should always be a full checkup by a veterinarian. A pet that mopes around and no longer wants to go for walks could simply have pain from arthritis, Beaver says."

https://pets.webmd.com/dogs/features/depression-in-dogs#1

Notice how the depressed animals are the ones that are kept as pets; the ones that hang around us all the time. I think I agree with Leo in that animals are usually surrendered to the moment, however 'the only animals that may occasionally experience something akin to negativity or show signs of neurotic behaviour are those that live in close contact with humans and so link into the human mind and its insanity.'...as said by Eckhart Tolle.