Fracturing the Community Critique

[TylerW]

This is a response to Leo's post about fracturing the community.

As a reminder here is what he said:

"I want to remind people that anyone caught using this forum or the PM system to recruit members to off-site discussions like Skype, Discord, private chatrooms, etc. will be banned without warning.

This is not only against Forum Guidelines, but a danger to this community, which risks creating fractures and corruption. Moderators have zero oversight or control of what happens outside this forum. I take the recreation of cults very seriously.

Do not use this forum to recruit anyone or pitch any groups or schemes, regardless of whether they are "free" or anything else of that nature. In doing so, you are opening a can worms which you do not yet understand. The potential for abuse here is very great, which is why I have a zero tolerance policy about this.

Please keep all conversations on this forum. Or otherwise, find yourself a different community to join.

Anyone found joining such secret groups is subject to perma-ban without warning.

If you see people doing this, please report them to a Moderator or myself.

Thank you."

 

I want to ask why this is such a dangerous thing? Please explain. Maybe I am a bit naïve, but this seems very dictatorial and controlling. It's like saying, "Okay class, if I see any of you students interacting outside of the classroom, you will be immediately expelled from the class!"

Honestly, this seems completely ridiculous. Just because I want to talk to someone outside of the community, doesn't mean that we are going to leave the forum entirely. What if some of us want to have a very personal in-depth discussion about self-actualization, meditation etc. It is sometimes difficult to find people that are into this sort of thing. It could give us the opportunity to discuss ideas more quickly and openly, which could help us understand other peoples' journeys, so we can learn and grow ourselves. I could actually see a benefit to this. Don't get me wrong there are always downsides. Maybe to solve this problem Leo could create his own discord server or something, where it could be moderated and we could all voice chat.

I'm curious for your guys response. I don't care if I get hate. I usually agree with Leo on most things, but this I just don't understand.

Edited January 20, 2018 by TylerW

[Leo Gura]

@TylerW Because it is absued. People with bad intentions will use it to hijack the community for themselves. Communities involve politics, egos, and power struggles.

People will use these private groups for money, sex, power, status, starting cults, spreading rumors, in-fighting, scheming, etc.

This is a very well-known phenomena. It happens like clockwork, and it's tried to happen several times before on this forum.

The solution is to uproot it immediately. Yes, that might seem harsh, but the alternative is worse. An unmoderated community devolves into chaos very quickly. Finding the right balance between moderation and freedom is the key. Sometimes that means stepping on a few peoples toes or restricting some freedoms.

[Space]

@TylerW I get what you're saying, people should be just be able to freely exchange ideas and information regarding other resources etc. This is fair. But if Leo/mods were to accept this, then it would open up the door for potentially much worse. It's much easier to just have a blanket statement of no recruitment or sharing of other communities etc., even though it might include posts that are relatively harmless.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Space

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, blazed said:

Anyone claiming to give instant enlightenment through RASA or Discord is a total scam, fraud, liar, and should be banned, to help all the naive people from self harm. (All the forum posts were pretty much guaranteeing enlightenement)

Sudden enlightenments do happen but they are extremely rare, probably at the same odds of winning the lottery jackpot.

If this shit worked the spiritual journey would have been very easy, everyone would be enlightenment and the best teachers in the world will all be talking about RASA.

The more desperate someone is the more gullible they are, willing to believe in just about anything as long as they have a chance or hope to get something... and with that mindset of the ego you're not going to get it! ha LOSERS!

Every smart platform has moderation, YouTube auto detects and hide people's post that try to advertise their own channel in others comment section.

When you're targetting someone else's audience you're being a leech, a leech is parasite that sucks other's blood, stay away from leeches.

 

One man's meat is another man's poison.  

[Guest Annetta]

Because the person in question is disrespectful.  When they first started using this forum, they made click bait videos to get more viewers to their channel on top of having a friend post videos here while pretending they did not know them.  The friend seemed to do a lot for them, from editing the videos to shooting them to doing the artwork for it.  This says to me that this person is good at getting people to do things for them.

They were banned from the forum then for causing disturbances but I believe continued to watch the forum for whatever reason.  They then made another account and tried to push even more ideas of theirs onto this forum before being banned again.  Now they have all of you speaking for them and the validity of their spiritual techniques, running around doing things for them, ect, pilfering half the community here.  And why this community exactly?  There really are a lot of forums out there.  A lot.

It is no wonder that Leo has put his foot down.

Sometimes people spread ideas to help other people, and sometimes they do it because the spreading of the idea is the whole point - in which case the ends might justify the means.

[MisterMan]

I did have the same confusion when reading that. I can see how

13 hours ago, TylerW said:

This is a response to Leo's post about fracturing the community.

As a reminder here is what he said:

"I want to remind people that anyone caught using this forum or the PM system to recruit members to off-site discussions like Skype, Discord, private chatrooms, etc. will be banned without warning.

This is not only against Forum Guidelines, but a danger to this community, which risks creating fractures and corruption. Moderators have zero oversight or control of what happens outside this forum. I take the recreation of cults very seriously.

Do not use this forum to recruit anyone or pitch any groups or schemes, regardless of whether they are "free" or anything else of that nature. In doing so, you are opening a can worms which you do not yet understand. The potential for abuse here is very great, which is why I have a zero tolerance policy about this.

Please keep all conversations on this forum. Or otherwise, find yourself a different community to join.

Anyone found joining such secret groups is subject to perma-ban without warning.

If you see people doing this, please report them to a Moderator or myself.

Thank you."

 

I want to ask why this is such a dangerous thing? Please explain. Maybe I am a bit naïve, but this seems very dictatorial and controlling. It's like saying, "Okay class, if I see any of you students interacting outside of the classroom, you will be immediately expelled from the class!"

Honestly, this seems completely ridiculous. Just because I want to talk to someone outside of the community, doesn't mean that we are going to leave the forum entirely. What if some of us want to have a very personal in-depth discussion about self-actualization, meditation etc. It is sometimes difficult to find people that are into this sort of thing. It could give us the opportunity to discuss ideas more quickly and openly, which could help us understand other peoples' journeys, so we can learn and grow ourselves. I could actually see a benefit to this. Don't get me wrong there are always downsides. Maybe to solve this problem Leo could create his own discord server or something, where it could be moderated and we could all voice chat.

I'm curious for your guys response. I don't care if I get hate. I usually agree with Leo on most things, but this I just don't understand.

Yeah i got the same thing. Got a culty vibe from that post? Like how people in scientology aren't allowed to speak to people on the outside including their own family members just to protect itself from members leaving. :)))

 

 

 

 

[Source_Mystic]

On 1/20/2018 at 2:00 PM, TylerW said:

This is a response to Leo's post about fracturing the community.

As a reminder here is what he said:

"I want to remind people that anyone caught using this forum or the PM system to recruit members to off-site discussions like Skype, Discord, private chatrooms, etc. will be banned without warning.

This is not only against Forum Guidelines, but a danger to this community, which risks creating fractures and corruption. Moderators have zero oversight or control of what happens outside this forum. I take the recreation of cults very seriously.

Do not use this forum to recruit anyone or pitch any groups or schemes, regardless of whether they are "free" or anything else of that nature. In doing so, you are opening a can worms which you do not yet understand. The potential for abuse here is very great, which is why I have a zero tolerance policy about this.

Please keep all conversations on this forum. Or otherwise, find yourself a different community to join.

Anyone found joining such secret groups is subject to perma-ban without warning.

If you see people doing this, please report them to a Moderator or myself.

Thank you."

 

I find this absolutey absurd. Life is risk if I decided to talk and meet up with someone that is my risk my choice and I would directly be responsible for meeting that person. It would take extrodinary comeradery and a long standing friendship for me to even think about doing this for me personaly.

As sometimes really great things come from by taking chances. I know this because that is how I met my wife (OF FIVE YEARS) on a chat then on Skype and the rest is history. 

 As for Skype or viop or other chat protocols keep or can keep you annymous. There is not much danger there.  Would I if I had alot of information to share regarding meditation or other topics that  I am qualified to talk about then use voip to relay  that. 

 Sure I would 

 This policy is not about dangers or risks or Leo caring about your well being. To me it looks like a protocal to protect Leo's branding looesing influence. He is afraid you will find your  fix somehere else. Which  is ironic considering most of his videos are second hand clifnotes of books and ideas he has read. No knowledge is truly an original idea so this is not a problem for me so much. 

His first hand experances regarding meditation things like that are I am sure 100% his direct experance. 

 I am also finding his curent project of meetng some of you directly in real life hypocritical when viewed against this rule

It is fine for him to make and break his own rules. BUT ....If he does that that makes him a hypirocite.

My personal opinion of this forum is like Leo's videos stimulate growth but from what I have seen people that just use this information alone are doing themselves a disservice.  I seen total polarisation here to leo' s view by some. He says life is a hallucination. Great that is his path throught  reality epistemology.

Look for diverse sources that cover the gambit of left right and center. Do not isolate yourself here or any place else. To get the big picture you have to do this.

 I do not devalue Leo 's work of views I think he has worked very hard to get to where he is. I just do not feel everyone goes down the same rabbit hole and comes to identical conclusions. I may have my own unique hallcination of reality that is no less true or even takes me to higher levels in a diffrent way. 

......as Leo has done himself 

Question everyone and everything  untill you have a direct experance yourself then build your understanding on those experances. I am a mystic and my direct experance is my greatest tool.  I am venimously against gurus because I know you can come to the truth your self. 

Don't look to others to protect you be smart and protect yourself by acting intellgently and not making rash choices but when you do make those choices think out the consequences. Weigh out the pros and cons and the take  responsibility for your actions.

The problem I am having with this policy is enlightenment and self aculization should bring you to more freedom and responsibility it should elevate you to make better choices. BUT  instead of embracing and embodying that Leo is taking  away freeodom. Where is that radical open-mindedness now that he demands from all of you ? 

It would be just as hyproticial to ban me because I hold such views since I have not broken this policy. But if he decides to do that so be it.  I wish you all well but I sit firmly  on the side of freedom not fear. 

To make myself clear have no inteest in making a secret group or pulling any of you away from here  to manipulate you. Any post I make I genuiney just try to help people the best way I can. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Source_Mystic