How can enlightened yogis be deceiving themselves?

[Nahm]

@SOUL Dude, I’m fascinated by what you are saying, but your statements seem conflicted. Are you willing to elaborate a little? How it absolute is a ideal, and how exactly it is sold, and how it is taught? No offensive. I am really intrigued. 

[SOUL]

@Nahm  I'm out on the road right now posting from my phone and didn't intend to get into a deep discussion so tonight when I'm home and can post from the laptop we can continue this further

[Nahm]

@SOUL right on. Drive safe man. ❤️ 

[star ark]

2 hours ago, tecladocasio said:

@Leo Gura I don't get it , how can someone be deceived if there is no one to be deceived . You are enlighened and you still have thoughts , but is just a flow of thoughst , no owner or origin ,how can be deception ? 

If you believe you don't exist, you are not actually typing words on a keyboard or smart device right now, Leo doesn't exist so he cannot answer you, the internet doesn't exist etc then why are you bothering at all? How can all the things required to validate the theory that nothing exists be extant? You use the things you claim don't exist to try and prove that nothing exists!

It's not specifically you who does it, it's like half the people here and it's so damn obvious. 

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Delusion resides in perception, not in thought.

Don't cling to this belief too tightly.  Be gentle with beliefs.  You're gonna set yourself 100 miles away from Enlightenment.  

Edited January 21, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

People get caught in deception because they don’t know when thought is moving. Sometimes a thought can go unnoticed as being thought and attribute to itself that is is not thought. 

Thought is very cleaver and subtle. ??‍♂️

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, Faceless said:

People get caught in deception because they don’t know when thought is moving. Sometimes a thought can go unnoticed as being thought and attribute to itself that is is not thought. 

Thought is very cleaver and subtle. ??‍♂️

Thought is like trying to fit 3-dimensional phenomena into a 2-dimensional model.

[Faceless]

An example would be the self which is thought not knowing that it itself is a movement of thought. Hints this movement of fragmentation. If not watched closely thought will fragment without even realizing that there was a movement of fragmentation taking place. Therefore it is sensed that there has been a moment comlplety free of thought that has taken place. But his may not be the case. 

Sorry if I’m not coming acrossed. My son is jumping on my back and my head as I write this lol. 

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor  I’ve never looked at that way. I’ll investigate it in that perspective. ?

[tecladocasio]

@star ark I didn't understand what is your point , but ok . You don't believe that you don't exist , is quite the contrary ... and how can someone ''believe'' they don't exist , who believes then... ? ahahha

[SOUL]

@Nahm Upon further contemplation I don't really want to be too critical of others expressing their own way but it's unfortunate how people sell belief systems that seem to perpetuate the inner anguish even as it professes to be the solution for suffering. I don't want to speculate on whether people intend to do this or if it's accidental or both but it's never ending words and ideas for hire to 'save' us.

Edited January 21, 2018 by SOUL

[Faceless]

@Mighty Mouse

yeah Not being aware that thought is moving. 

That’s one reason of course. Thought to is deceptive in its self. 

 

[Nahm]

@SOUL Yeah, I hear that. Encountered a lot of flavors of that. I can only speak from where I’m at in life, but just to me, that is dogma, which is just very very different from the absolute / God within. It’s like someone experiences it, tells someone, and then dude #2 writes a whole dogma about it. Self inquiry / direct experience always seems to rise as the only way. 

[SOUL]

@Nahm  But is your God the most Godly? It has to be the truthiest truth, the most infinitely infinite and absolutely absolute or you are mired in the most delusional illusion! The most false deception of misery will consume you unless you hurry on that hamster wheel rushing to the other end of the duality I say it offers freedom from because I have the words... ideas .... beliefs of Truth which has a T that is the most capitalized evar!

Once I awakened to the cycle of yearning in my consciousness that creates the hamster wheel in the mind and instead attune my awareness to a contentment in just being present those poles of duality ceased to be the source of suffering in my experience. True and false lost it's power to what is, real and illusion lost it's grip on being, genuine liberation from that cycle.... I'm sure there are many words for it and they are all free.

Edited January 21, 2018 by SOUL

[Nahm]

35 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Nahm  But is your God the most Godly? It has to be the truthiest truth, the most infinitely infinite and absolutely absolute or you are mired in the most delusional illusion! The most false deception of misery will consume you unless you hurry on that hamster wheel rushing to the other end of the duality I say it offers freedom from because I have the words... ideas .... beliefs of Truth which has a T that is the most capitalized evar!

Once I awakened to the cycle of yearning in my consciousness that creates the hamster wheel in the mind and instead attune my awareness to a contentment in just being present those poles of duality ceased to be the source of suffering in my experience. True and false lost it's power to what is, real and illusion lost it's grip on being, genuine liberation from that cycle.... I'm sure there are many words for it and they are all free.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘my God’. There’s just the One.  Any word could be applied. The word applied is, absolute. That’s not arbitrary. I like the word God better, but it twists connotation panties. I think that misery / hamster wheel thing is a fork in the road of go forward though it, or stop and set up camp. I don’t understand “beliefs of Truth”. To me, a belief of anything is still belief. Maybe I am heavy handed conversationally with the separation of beliefs and truth, but it’s here , on a forum, about Truth, and it’s fun. I am with you on freedom. It’s mentally delicious. Physiologically satisfying.  I always found a roller coaster in desire and suffering. I wanted to have desire without suffering. I wanted to experience the truth for myself. I did. I now have desire (which is inherent), incredible desire, without the suffering I unknowingly applied all by myself before. I have this because I experienced the absolute. There is no suffering in the illusion now.  I respect your power of mind though. I did not have that, so I was really never content before. Now, I am content with what is, because I see what is. Human wise, bigger picture, we’re both very happy with where we’re at. What a beautiful thing!!! 

[Natasha]

@How to be wise By default as a survival mechanism. 

[How to be wise]

@Monkey-man and it is sadhguru who said that he spends the majority of his time without any thoughts. Usually days on end.

[SOUL]

On 1/21/2018 at 11:10 AM, Nahm said:

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘my God’.

That first paragraph was a tongue in cheek way of illustrating how people, gurus, 'teachers', seekers and even our own egos often will frame the 'path'. That it has to be the most exemplary form that is the truth and anything but it is viewed as the complete opposite, this framing is done lure us onto the wheel and chase it.

That brings me back to my original point that started this exchange, the abstract ideal that is set up as bait to lure us into chasing it. whether it's heaven, nirvana, enlightenment, truth, absolute and on and on. That's what makes it an ideal, it's an idea, a concept but people will believe it's real, a fact, the truth and not just their own personal one but a universal one that is for everyone and everything... because... the bait of perfection, for absolute, for the ONE the only true ONE!

It's all built on belief, I could list out every belief people have just to get to the point of believing that one has no beliefs, that it isn't belief... no, it's TRUTH! Even if one wants to deny they have belief, instead to call it fact or reality it relies on a bunch of individual beliefs dependent on one another to support the chain of psychological trust that forms a personal ideology to call something a fact/reality.... but is still belief.

Then some will package their own personal belief ideology or adopts someone else's in whole, in part or in combination and 'sell' it to themselves as truth and to others for them buy into as their own belief....even to sometimes literally sell it in books, seminars, satsangs, videos.... religions....to pay money to believe as they do. That is the point in this thread, too, people delude themselves into believing their own belief even that it isn't belief at all but call it a truth, an absolute truth.... the Truth, the ONE Truth.

Me? I have awakened to it and just enjoy the trip, enjoy life...whatever it is. Being now here, allow it to be the fulfillment of all potential for what it is. Not try to control it's interpretation and conceptualization or claim some complete knowledge and understanding of it as absolute truth.... do I have it? Can I have it? Maybe... maybe not...does it matter?...Really?

I let go of the yearning for it and the wheel stopped spinning....there is peace. If you experience this as well, then, so be it.

[Guest thesmileyone]

Enlightened Yogis can be perfect.

 

IF they sit in a cave their whole lives with no interaction with others.

 

Unfortunatly you require using the mind to live with other people, and the mind has flaws.

[Nahm]

Once the deception is revealed,  it’s easy to appreciate.