Therapy Session About Physical Intimancy

[Shir]

Hey Everyone ! <3

Long story short, I've been in therapy for a good while now (almost 6 months) for depression (imo, Major Depression to be exact) which included dealing with almost daily suicidal thoughts and a huge lack of motivation. I'm not on medication and refuse to take any. The thing is, as time has gone by, I realize a significant chunk of why I might be suffering from depression, has to do with the love life/relationship aspect of my life. For reference, I'm a 25 year old young lady that's  heterosexual, with I would say a high sex drive, technically a virgin and I've never had a bf nor a relationship for that matter, I'm against hook ups and casual relationships. To make matters "worse" I've never even been kissed or been on a date (neither asked out). It's just gotten to a point in my life that I have honestly been so used to being single for literally all my life that, the possibly of having a relationship seems pretty slim to me.

The thing I wanted to address was my recent session, which sadly still shakes me up till now. I'm someone who ISN'T religious but spiritual. That being said, I seem to have adopted a more religious-romantic approach to sex and feel like the best thing for ME is to save sex for marriage. I fully realize that some ppl think it may be the dumbest thing ever, but I believe it can work as LONG as both parties are very, very honest with each other and have great communication skills and aren't afraid to talk about the really important issues like sexual chemist, desires, fetishes, turn on's ect..I know for a fact that I can do that and be honest.

Anyways, MY reasons for wanting to save sex for marriage;

1) I think it's romantic. I really, really do.

2) If it can benefit the religious aspect by default, why not?

3) I'd know the person I'm in love with wants to marry me for ME and feels serious enough about me, including commitment. 

4) Extremely paranoid of being used for sex or having a relationship where sex was involved and I get dumped for what ever reason. I feel in my heart of hearts that such a situation would crush me (no matter how fair or not) because I hold physical intimacy to the highest level possible. 

5) I take the idea of marriage really seriously and would never get married just to "have sex already". 

6) Thanks to my therapist, I have realized that a major reason why I take the topic of Physical intimacy so deeply is that I'm someone who has absolutely NO problem with being and showing a lot of emotional intimacy, but since I'm "really good at that", the cost of anything hindering the physical intimacy might feel detrimental to my well being. 

Okay, once we've gotten those, I just wanted to add that honestly? I feel like no one really wants me or is attracted to me in my day to day life. And so I literally never get approached. I do my best to dress up and take care of myself and practice good hygiene and always be extremely polite and friendly with anyone that meets me. That being said, I do my part to show interest if that even happens and tbh the guy is always either taken or of the wrong sexual attraction to my own (wouldn't have known). The funny part is? when ppl get to know me online, I feel like ppl fall in love with my personality and seem attracted to me so I honestly don't know what the deal really is. I know I'm not perfect and never will be, and that I have a lot of things to work on that I'm insecure about (like my weight ect) but getting to a point in my life where literally no one bothers with me...well you can imagine that you start to think well hey, what's wrong with me?

Anyways, what happened in my session was that I addressed ALL of this to my therapist and he started being candid with me "as a man", as he said. He quite literally implied that I'm absurd for wanted to wait till marriage for sex and that it's pretty much ridiculous considering I'm not even religious and that no guy will ever want to put up with me because "I have to take their needs up too". I was pretty shocked yet not too surprised to hear all this.

The problem is, I WISH I had the chance to date someone that has very similar if not identical values of saving sex for marriage HOWEVER the reason that it's so hard, where I live (not from the US), is because ppl who are religious - want religious partners. The rest? secular ppl want someone who is willing to give out and have sex. So, as you can imagine, I'm quite literally stuck and don't belong anywhere.

My therapist said I should pretty much "bend" and basically have sex before marriage, not too soon into a relationship, yet not wait so much either. It just hurts to hear because, I feel like why do I always have to be the one to bend and be considerate all the time? Why is it SO wrong for a guy to be considerate to what I need in this case? he basically made me feel like, just because I'm secular that it's without question that I'll have to bend into a guys needs in the end...but if I was religious, I wouldn't. I think that some straight up bullshit. 

With everything said, I'm fully aware to the nature of men and honestly realize how important and vital the physical aspect of a relationship is to men, I just feel like me being so aware to it yet knowing what I need and want (saving sex for marriage)...you can imagine the huge conflict born out of this struggle. That being said, it still breaks my heart that I'd have to "give in" like my therapist said. It doesn't feel like me at all and causes my a lot of anxiety. I am by NO means a snobbish person nor a stuck up person, I just feel like saving sex for marriage is the best thing I can do for myself for so many reasons. 

I know I mentioned that I'm suffering from depression and that this has given me a lot of pain, it just that it hurts to feel like you have no place in the world. 

I would appreciate your thoughts and hope you understand my situation. I just feel like you need to live where I do to get a holistic sense of the whole "secular-religious" aspect to my problem in regards to potential partners but hopefully I did my best to convey my anguish of the situation. Any advise and thoughts would be Highly appreciated !!! <333

[Key Elements]

Those guys are very rare in the world. I recommend that you work on yourself, discover your life purpose, find out about spirituality, connect the two together, and maybe perhaps along this journey, you will meet a match. Remember that no one has the answer to your questions. Anyone can only give tips. It's up to you to do careful research and take careful, efficient action on it. If you could find a match like that, it would be well worth the journey. After getting married, most things are not about sex. It's about growing together lifelong, making compromises, and not calling it quits on each other. There will be good times, of course, but are you up for the challenges when it comes? 

[Spiral]

@Shir I find you view of sex admirable, but you'll find that once you get feelings it will be difficult to resist. I mean are going to be girlfriend/boyfriend for at least 3 years without sex etc. If so you'll probably need to find a very religious guy.

Another bonus is that you'll have stronger connection, due to neither of you have orgasms.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Spiral

[Aquarius]

They're your values, and it's fine to stick with them. No one can ask you to "bend". Just make sure these values aren't based on some fear, like fear of getting pregnant (I actually suffer from this). Also ask yourself if you have some limiting beliefs about sex. 

You seem like the type of person who needs intimate sex, I mean sex that has love in it not just carnal satisfaction. 

And if you want some men like that, well, it isn't that rare, there's a group of people whose sexual orientation is Asexual. Which means they might have sex with you, but don't crave it. But everyone has different definition for their (a)sexuality, so be compassionate when you meet someone. You could download an asexual dating app and meet asexuals.  I met many asexuals and they're cool people.

I don't think your therapist meant to hurt you, he is just trying his best to help you. He suggested an idea, but it's up to you what you do with your life. It's your life.

[Key Elements]

I dunno. It didn't sound like she was talking about an "asexual" guy. It sounded like she wanted someone who matches her values. Values are deep. To get an exact match takes careful work, and also, don't let anyone put you down or take advantage of you just because you have different core values from them.

Some other thoughts came to my mind: they're called "asexuals?" That's interesting. Gotta look that up - the definition. Still, if you're planning a marriage, make sure you know what it takes to be in a successful / first time / lifelong  marriage. It would help to know real couples who are in a committed marriage. And then, you brought up understanding spirituality. Make sure this guy is radically open-minded so he could grow spiritually with you, or at least open-minded enough to listen.

[Epiphany_Inspired]

@Shir Some good questions here. 

Don't fret,  you can have a boyfriend, you just need to have the courage to step off that cliff of fear (you will find firm fluffy clouds actually catch your every step).

It's up to you to decide if the marriage thing really is a value or a fear....and I have no idea how many men, may or may not, hold this value too (honestly). That said, from personal experience, talking about those desires and intimate preferences would not be sufficient to determine chemistry etc....

Cuddling, holding hands, etc would be a good way to start getting comfortable with intimacy  

[Shir]

On 1/19/2018 at 11:56 AM, Key Elements said:

Those guys are very rare in the world. I recommend that you work on yourself, discover your life purpose, find out about spirituality, connect the two together, and maybe perhaps along this journey, you will meet a match. Remember that no one has the answer to your questions. Anyone can only give tips. It's up to you to do careful research and take careful, efficient action on it. If you could find a match like that, it would be well worth the journey. After getting married, most things are not about sex. It's about growing together lifelong, making compromises, and not calling it quits on each other. There will be good times, of course, but are you up for the challenges when it comes? 

@Key Elements Hey There !  First off, I wanted to thank you for your thoughts, I really appreciate it ! 

I totally agree that such men are really rare in the world, it seems even more so where I live with the whole secular-religious divide and me literally belonging to the prior but at the same time holding values belonging to the last. So as you can imagine, I'm pretty much sitting on the fence, looking at both yet belonging to neither at the same time...at least that's how I personally feel. 

I feel like I really, really know my life purpose and passion (becoming a Clinical Psychologist/Therapist - helping people out) and know exactly who I'd want to be. I realize depression has been, for the longest time, keeping and holding me back from living my potential to even get close to these goals and to honest I do feel quite hopeless as it is but I completely agree that working on myself would be the best thing I can do for ME at this time. 

You've made me realize something really important though that I never thought I'd need or would ask the universe for - but the possibility of dating a man who is as spiritual as me deep down (doesn't even have to be religious at all at that) would be wonderful. Maybe that's what I'm lacking haha. 

You're right though, sadly...no one really has an answer to my questions and I think the growing pains of fully realizing that, has sunken in the last few weeks, especially with me feeling more suicidal but that's okay. I loved the way with which you defined the essence of marriage so thank you  and true, real love wouldn't give up that easily when challenges come !

Edited January 24, 2018 by Shir

[Shir]

@Spiral

On 1/19/2018 at 0:17 PM, Spiral said:

@Shir I find you view of sex admirable, but you'll find that once you get feelings it will be difficult to resist. I mean are going to be girlfriend/boyfriend for at least 3 years without sex etc. If so you'll probably need to find a very religious guy.

Another bonus is that you'll have stronger connection, due to neither of you have orgasms.

Aweee thank you ! I really appreciate it and wanted to give thanks for sharing your thoughts on my situation and question <3

I know exactly what you mean. I've had feelings for men before (literally happened online, we planned to meet up but sadly things didn't go well and both men broke up with me even though I was the one willing to fight for them and the love that remained) and I know these feelings have naturally led me to desire to sleep with them as well...so it really is hard to resist yes. 

I think though that if I met the love of my love, I have no problem not having sex during the relationship part. I feel like if it's the right man for me, why not wait? not because I want to of course, but it would have to be a mutual decision I realize - at the end of the day. That being said you're right, it seems like "realistically" speaking, I'd have to find a religious guy that would be willing to honor such values, simply because he himself shares the same probably. 

Oh and wait...a stronger connection due to neither of us having orgasms?! oh my you confused me haha...I'm sure you meant that shared orgasms would build a stronger connection. true ! 

[Shir]

@Aquarius

On 1/19/2018 at 6:47 PM, Aquarius said:

They're your values, and it's fine to stick with them. No one can ask you to "bend". Just make sure these values aren't based on some fear, like fear of getting pregnant (I actually suffer from this). Also ask yourself if you have some limiting beliefs about sex. 

You seem like the type of person who needs intimate sex, I mean sex that has love in it not just carnal satisfaction. 

And if you want some men like that, well, it isn't that rare, there's a group of people whose sexual orientation is Asexual. Which means they might have sex with you, but don't crave it. But everyone has different definition for their (a)sexuality, so be compassionate when you meet someone. You could download an asexual dating app and meet asexuals.  I met many asexuals and they're cool people.

I don't think your therapist meant to hurt you, he is just trying his best to help you. He suggested an idea, but it's up to you what you do with your life. It's your life.

Thank you for your thoughts on my situation ! I really appreciate it <3 

You're right though, I think it's my fault because perhaps I didn't convey it enough in my original post but my willing to save sex till marriage is also based on a few fears. I think pregnancy is a legitimate part of it, if not the main (you can say I'm not against abortion). I think my other fears have to do with being used for sex or getting dumped after sex. Body image issues too. I totally get you though, around the fear of getting pregnant...we ladies deal with so much tbh !

And you're right haha...I REALLY do need intimate sex ^^" like years ago lol. But, you hit the nail on the head for sure !!!

I think I would like to clarify though that as much as I respect and appreciate the asexual community - I'm not looking for an asexual man  Not to say there's anything wrong with them, it's just that in my heart of hearts - I would rather have a man who is sexually attracted to me and that lusts over me, the same if not more that I lust over him. I just feel like I need that in my life, because I'm a sensual woman that would be attacked to him and vice versa...again I swear it's not me dissing the community at all haha (I even have a close lady friend who is asexual AND aromantic so I know the basis of how they feel). I'm sure asexual men are VERY cool people and tbh? The thought DID cross my mind to date one...but I think I need a man who would be sexually attracted to me and desire me at the end of the day (of course, as I would him too). That being said, I fully appreciate the advice ! and, I'm sure if I dated such a man that HE would fully be able to respect my values...easily too. Maybe I'm being too picky?! 

BTW - You've made me realize that I must have taken to heart too much of what my Therapist said, you're right ! I now realize he didn't really mean any harm and that he was just trying to help

[Shir]

@Key Elements

On 1/19/2018 at 7:39 PM, Key Elements said:

I dunno. It didn't sound like she was talking about an "asexual" guy. It sounded like she wanted someone who matches her values. Values are deep. To get an exact match takes careful work, and also, don't let anyone put you down or take advantage of you just because you have different core values from them.

Some other thoughts came to my mind: they're called "asexuals?" That's interesting. Gotta look that up - the definition. Still, if you're planning a marriage, make sure you know what it takes to be in a successful / first time / lifelong  marriage. It would help to know real couples who are in a committed marriage. And then, you brought up understanding spirituality. Make sure this guy is radically open-minded so he could grow spiritually with you, or at least open-minded enough to listen.

Hey There ! I wanted to say thank you for your thoughts on my situation, I really appreciate it ! <3

You're right, I'm not technically looking for an asexual guy. I think it would be unfair of me too, in a sense  So I fully agree with you, it would be amazing to find a guy that matches my values yes. I think though that asexuals can technically have the same "values"  but for other reasons than me of course. But that thing is, I don't think it would be fair of me to date one because I personally would like to be lusted after and desired; basically would like a partner who is sexually attracted to me, as I would be to him ! haha. I've just lived all my life being sexually attracted to men and so I would think it would be unfair of me to "be with" an asexual and "use him" to satisfy my need to have my value respected, by default -  by them.  If that makes sense? I'm rambling...

You've made some serious and really important points ! I really have to look into marriage more, especially because I'm not feeling ready to get married anytime soon. It seems silly to say but I kinda feel like a teenager in some ways...never been on a date, never kissed before...I would like to experience these things first haha. I think I really would need an open-minded guy at the end of the day as well, exactly as you mentioned...who can go spiritually with me. That would be an absolute dream tbh ! <3 

Edited January 24, 2018 by Shir

[Shir]

@Epiphany_Inspired

On 1/19/2018 at 10:29 PM, Epiphany_Inspired said:

@Shir Some good questions here. 

Don't fret,  you can have a boyfriend, you just need to have the courage to step off that cliff of fear (you will find firm fluffy clouds actually catch your every step).

It's up to you to decide if the marriage thing really is a value or a fear....and I have no idea how many men, may or may not, hold this value too (honestly). That said, from personal experience, talking about those desires and intimate preferences would not be sufficient to determine chemistry etc....

Cuddling, holding hands, etc would be a good way to start getting comfortable with intimacy  

Hey There ! I wanted to say thank you for sharing your thoughts about my situations <3 I really appreciate it ! 

Haha if only I didn't fret right...literally me everyday lol. I love the way you phrased the rest, so beautiful ! (...you just need to have the courage to step off that cliff of fear - you will find firm fluffy clouds actually catch your every step). 

Oh and about what you said - I think, speaking for me personally, the marriage thing is BOTH a value and a fear. Simply, saving sex for marriage is both a value I think I want to hold (for the beauty of it) and a fear because I'm scared of getting abandoned or used sexually. 

I fully understand that talking might seem insufficient in order to determine chemistry and I think you may be right and maybe I'm in denial lol.

and you're right...I wish I could step closer into getting to feel intimacy through cuddling and holding hands ect ! <3