Self Deception Part 1

[Charlotte]

First off, loved the video. 

 

Second thing, I found myself feeling quite down after watching it, why? No idea. 

 

Third thing, how do you guys become aware of your self deceptions?

 

The video left me feeling like a phony for some reason, probably because I contemplated all the bullshitting I do to myself

Edited January 18, 2018 by Charlotte
Spelling error

[snowleopard]

1 hour ago, Charlotte said:

how do you guys become aware of your self deceptions?

Whenever the notion appears that I am a "___" (fill in the blank), that is self-deception.

[saint_charming7]

@Charlotte Yeah, I felt kind of down as well.  But, I guess is just a wake up call so you can stay more in touch with true meaning of life, rather than just clinging into the many distractions we face in reality. I think contemplation can be a good method for developing awareness w/ all the bs we face everyday (it also helps in not taking things too seriously), and living a more profound and "original" lifestyle. Anyways, I think that's pretty normal feeling you are having , also think about the bright side of this: maybe now you have more meaning to keep working on self actualization, which is a never ending process of growth and waking up from self-deception. (: 

[Charlotte]

@Mighty Mouse You could be on to something there! I've felt like shit all afternoon/evening. I'll try and take the positives out of it. Thank you. 

@snowleopard Thanks for the tip

 

@saint_charming7  At least I'm not alone! Actually your absolutely right when you say...

38 minutes ago, saint_charming7 said:

 I guess is just a wake up call so you can stay more in touch with true meaning of life, rather than just clinging into the many distractions we face in reality

Spot on! Different perspective but it actually resonates with me a lot. Thank you. 

[zazed]

Fascinating and thought provoking video. So many logic loops in the video. So having knowledge about the workings of the mind is self-deception. Is Leo exempt from self-deception? Isn't he sharing his knowledge? Knowing the truth is a form of knowledge, and we already confirmed we cannot trust knowledge.

I conclude the only knowledge we can trust, is that we have no knowledge. There is no self. There is only being.

Overthinking your actions also makes for an overactive mind far from awareness.

 

1 hour ago, snowleopard said:

Whenever the notion appears that I am a "___" (fill in the blank), that is self-deception.

I am a "self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "something something"""""

Isn't that a loop, are you sure this knowledge is true and complete?

 

@Charlotte
it's just a mind game. 
who is listening, who is deceived? isn't the mind deceiving the mind? Isn't Leo just a mind talking to another mind (You), using pixels on a screen (not even Leo). So the video is just your mind is talking to your mind, and your feeling bad is just because you told yourself a story of deception in Leo's name.

if you are aware of this as a mind you can perhaps make different choices, which are also deceptions. But it's ultimately impossible as mind to be free of mind. The self cannot be what is not the self. Every value you have, every belief is a deception. It's not possible to fix this. In fact, this is just how the mind works. When or where exactly is choice made, and how?

The video indirectly says deception is unavoidable, so why feel bad, only two options remain:

1. You think, i have self deception, its a problem, i have to fix it
2. You think, i have gone far, self-deception is not a problem for me
   • you just deceived yourself, go back to 1.
3. There is no you, so there is no mind. This is not an option for you. You are still doing 1 and 2.
   There can be freedom of self. But self cannot be free of self.

This is powerful knowledge. But sometimes also meaningless. Often you are powerless to change it.
This all is fine. Feeling bad about this, is beside the point, and the biggest self-deception of all. Letting go, dropping your burden, is the correct result.

Relaxing, releasing, letting go, accepting and loving the self will create space for full awareness to arise. Self loathing, self hate, wanting to change the self, feeling bad, these creates inner conflict, and this conflict creates ripples in the mind that blind us from the truth. We cannot be free if we are busy with our-self, this all places the self in the center of our consciousness. When you want to be free of someone, you don't go constantly talk about him, think about him, and call him every hour of the day.

 

Why you feel bad is simple. The video is directed to you personally due to the language used. It talks as if the viewer is broken and the viewer has this huge problem. Perhaps this is so. Perhaps you are deceiving yourself, and feeling bad because your ego took a hit.
Generally it is normal to feel bad after watching someone talking about what is "wrong" with you.
In this sense, the feeling bad is a deception in itself. You are feeling bad for being a regular human being... Instead, forgive yourself for all your mistakes, enjoy life, love, and be aware. You can grow, this moment exists as it is, you cannot change the past.

[Sevi]

Yes, that was a great video and a wake up call. But all what matters is how we gonna take the call, that's the part makes me really doubtful honestly; knowing we're deceiving ourselves is not enough unfortunately.

4 hours ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Critical thinking grounded in honest observation. It's a skill you develop by doing. It usually doesn't happen all at once. It's the famous onion peeling process.

That's a great answer@Mighty Mouse the other thing is we need to apply it to almost every part of our lives, then what will define the priority?

* somehow I couldn't open last two comments and I'm really curious what everyone thinks..

[Joseph Maynor]

Watch this one by Emerald too:

 

[Leo Gura]

@Charlotte That feeling of feeling shitty is the sting of truth, and a sign that spiritual purification is happening.

Did you think your mind would send you happy, positive rewards for trying to hack it??

Of course not! The mind will ruthlessly punish you for trying to disrupt its carefully-laid deceptions. When you fuck with a tyrant's plans, expect a tyranical over-reaction. Rebels (freedom fighters) are squashed like ants by The Empire.

[Sevi]

1 hour ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Fortunately, life has a way of pointing out to you what needs to be looked at next, it tends to be in your face. Unfortunately, we have a way of not seeing (and not wanting to see) what's in our face .

Yeah@Mighty Mouse  spot on.

 

1 hour ago, Mighty Mouse said:

So you just do what you can when you can, and take it as it comes. At least that's been my experience in a nutshell. And I don't see that there's really much choice about it anyway.

Thanks.. it's simply this.. but this 'knowing it' is such a thing to deal with.. 

[Nahm]

@Sevi @Charlotte   Maybe consider more perspectives. Leo’s is his. Pick yours. It’s all one big deception / illusion anyways. It’s fun to uncover the authentic self, it’s deeply rewarding and liberating. Shedding the surface deceptions allows an ease of life. We can realize we’ve been creating our own stresses with our self importance. Let it inspire you. Resonate more and more with your god within. Remove the veils, reveal the beauty and joy. 

[Sevi]

4 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Sevi @Charlotte   Maybe consider more perspectives. Leo’s is his. Pick yours. It’s all one big deception / illusion anyways. It’s fun to uncover the authentic self, it’s deeply rewarding and liberating. Shedding the surface deceptions allows an ease of life. We can realize we’ve been creating our own stresses with our self importance. Let it inspire you. Resonate more and more with your god within. Remove the veils, reveal the beauty and joy. 

So beautifully said @Nahm , thank you??

[zazed]

@Mighty Mouse

[Charlotte]

On 18/01/2018 at 9:46 PM, zazed said:

Fascinating and thought provoking video. So many logic loops in the video. So having knowledge about the workings of the mind is self-deception. Is Leo exempt from self-deception? Isn't he sharing his knowledge? Knowing the truth is a form of knowledge, and we already confirmed we cannot trust knowledge.

I conclude the only knowledge we can trust, is that we have no knowledge. There is no self. There is only being.

Overthinking your actions also makes for an overactive mind far from awareness.

 

I am a "self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "a self deceptor whenever the notion appears that I am a "something something"""""

Isn't that a loop, are you sure this knowledge is true and complete?

 

@Charlotte
it's just a mind game. 
who is listening, who is deceived? isn't the mind deceiving the mind? Isn't Leo just a mind talking to another mind (You), using pixels on a screen (not even Leo). So the video is just your mind is talking to your mind, and your feeling bad is just because you told yourself a story of deception in Leo's name.

if you are aware of this as a mind you can perhaps make different choices, which are also deceptions. But it's ultimately impossible as mind to be free of mind. The self cannot be what is not the self. Every value you have, every belief is a deception. It's not possible to fix this. In fact, this is just how the mind works. When or where exactly is choice made, and how?

The video indirectly says deception is unavoidable, so why feel bad, only two options remain:

1. You think, i have self deception, its a problem, i have to fix it
2. You think, i have gone far, self-deception is not a problem for me
   • you just deceived yourself, go back to 1.
3. There is no you, so there is no mind. This is not an option for you. You are still doing 1 and 2.
   There can be freedom of self. But self cannot be free of self.

This is powerful knowledge. But sometimes also meaningless. Often you are powerless to change it.
This all is fine. Feeling bad about this, is beside the point, and the biggest self-deception of all. Letting go, dropping your burden, is the correct result.

Relaxing, releasing, letting go, accepting and loving the self will create space for full awareness to arise. Self loathing, self hate, wanting to change the self, feeling bad, these creates inner conflict, and this conflict creates ripples in the mind that blind us from the truth. We cannot be free if we are busy with our-self, this all places the self in the center of our consciousness. When you want to be free of someone, you don't go constantly talk about him, think about him, and call him every hour of the day.

 

Why you feel bad is simple. The video is directed to you personally due to the language used. It talks as if the viewer is broken and the viewer has this huge problem. Perhaps this is so. Perhaps you are deceiving yourself, and feeling bad because your ego took a hit.
Generally it is normal to feel bad after watching someone talking about what is "wrong" with you.
In this sense, the feeling bad is a deception in itself. You are feeling bad for being a regular human being... Instead, forgive yourself for all your mistakes, enjoy life, love, and be aware. You can grow, this moment exists as it is, you cannot change the past.

@zazed Your absolutely right, I'm clearly taking 'the self' still too seriously. In the video leo talked about seeking enlightenment to quickly which would result in a ego backlash (I think he described it as). 3 months or so into my personal development work I became hooked on self inquiry, contemplation and enlightenment. I was so eager to experience ego death, I made it my practice all day everyday. One day (morning) I had what can only be described as a shift of consciousness. Sat in my car on the drive, at that very moment, I took a huge gasp of air, cupping my mouth in complete shock of this realisation. I then felt as if I was looking at reality from a whole new perspective. For about 5 minutes I was everywhere, I had only consciousness, no body. When it settled, I remember vaguely being stood there shaking and feeling sick. From that moment on to this very day I have felt/feel, a definite resistance to self enquiry. I feel as if I've lost that eagerness, excitement and interest to the 'no self' topic. I have once again became soaked in ego and I absolutely hate it. The resistance will not shift! 

 

On 19/01/2018 at 1:02 AM, Leo Gura said:

@Charlotte That feeling of feeling shitty is the sting of truth, and a sign that spiritual purification is happening.

Did you think your mind would send you happy, positive rewards for trying to hack it??

Of course not! The mind will ruthlessly punish you for trying to disrupt its carefully-laid deceptions. When you fuck with a tyrant's plans, expect a tyranical over-reaction. Rebels (freedom fighters) are squashed like ants by The Empire.

@Leo Gura Very true! No, I should of been prepared for the mind to punish me to be honest, another example of how I'm still soaked in ego.

 

 @Nahm Thank you for your input ❤️❤️ Your absolutely right! 

On 19/01/2018 at 1:59 AM, Nahm said:

@Sevi @Charlotte   Maybe consider more perspectives. Leo’s is his. Pick yours. It’s all one big deception / illusion anyways. It’s fun to uncover the authentic self, it’s deeply rewarding and liberating. Shedding the surface deceptions allows an ease of life. We can realize we’ve been creating our own stresses with our self importance. Let it inspire you. Resonate more and more with your god within. Remove the veils, reveal the beauty and joy. 

Thank you everyone for sharing your perspectives and offering advice. I know what I need to do ?

[Leo Gura]

@Charlotte Personally, I've found psychedelics to be very effective for dealing with the fear-of-death obstacle. After a couple of dozen deep ego-deaths on psychedelics, you stop worrying about it and the fear of it drops away.

[zazed]

Charlotte, thanks for your reply and reading my overly long post.

11 hours ago, Charlotte said:

3 months or so into my personal development work I became hooked on self inquiry, contemplation and enlightenment. I was so eager to experience ego death, I made it my practice all day everyday.

This happened to me to. In such a situation, try to ask yourself "why?". Why are you suddenly hooked on this? Why are you doing this?
What are you trying to change, what do you intend to gain by becoming enlightened?
Only if you fully grasp the reason for your sudden obsession, you can start to honestly go for enlightenment without ego.
Because the ego is always the one that wants enlightenment first, to fix a problem, improve a situation. It is the ego that thinks it can become enlightened.

11 hours ago, Charlotte said:

I feel as if I've lost that eagerness, excitement and interest to the 'no self' topic. I have once again became soaked in ego and I absolutely hate it. The resistance will not shift! 

In the beginning you are motivated, you think about what you could gain perhaps. But in reality, the actual practice is kinda boring, and not very special. So you start to get bored and perhaps demotivated, this is normal. First forgive yourself.
Ask yourself, why do you hate being soaked in ego? Isn't it only the ego that hates? Perhaps the ego has become invested in becoming enlightened.
This often happens, the desire to see yourself as this being better than what you are now.

Rather accept, that you as Charlotte will not become enlightened. But enlightenment can become something that is.
Then sit and see what is, be open to whatever you may find. There is a lot to explore, like space, sound, time within your awareness when meditating.