Had a taste of ego death, is enlightment worth it?

[playdoh]

So I have a question after some deep contemplation yesterday. I guess you can say I had a taste of ego death when i woke up this morning and it wasn't very nice. Just felt like all my defenses were destroyed, I felt so vulnerable, this when when I realized how much our ego protects us. And now I'm questioning whether this is worth it or not. My question is, does this feeling of dread remain permanent until one becomes enlightened? Or do you start to feel better and receive some of the benefits of enlightment after a while? And if so how much better do you feel and after how long will you start to feel better? Because let's say you are 10 years at this and you still haven't become enlightened. And 10 years turns into 20 and so on. If you're going to  feel miserable the entire time then one should really consider whether they want to do this or not 

[lens]

That's because you are vulnerable, the ego that is. It doesn't like to acknowldge that though, so it makes enlightment seem like this horrible thing, and it is, FOR IT! To answer your question, no, the minute you see the truth it goes away(not like it never comes back, right now you will probally be experiecing waves), you are not going to be immune but you will not hold such a strong connection with the emotions the character of you is feeling. With that said, to get there, you are literally going to have to worsen your feeling of dread. Again, do not do this expecting bliss, this is truth for truth sake, it can take you 1 year, 5 years, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, the freaking heat death of the universe, but if you want this for the truth then go after it, be patient, it will be worth it. But if you want this as free get out jail card you are in for a rough time

[Leo Gura]

@playdoh Spiritual inquiry is hard work, and sometime it will feel like hell. But not always. There will be ups and downs, as with any serious project or endeavor.

It will not be 10 years of suffering

That said, you have to take into account the fact that you're currently already suffering a great deal. If you stop the inquiry, what are going back to? Suffering! Suffering! Suffering!

The more unconscious you are, the more you suffer.

10 years of suffering is what you can look forward to if you stop the inquiry. That much is guaranteed.

So you're damned if you do, and damned even more if you don't. Besides which, if you're already here, you probably already know too much to fall back asleep forever. You can't really ignore enlightenment once it's on your radar screen. What are you gonna do? Go back and live a lie? And be happy with that???

[playdoh]

@lens thanks for your answer. What do you mean by worsening the feeling of dread? And will you never feel bliss, i'm sure you do sometimes no?@Leo Gura Thanks Leo. I just saw a video on Youtube of some guy saying he didn't play video games because he didn't want to give into his desires because it would lower his consciousness. And I just thought of all the things I wouldn't be able to desire anymore, like women??! Whoa I dunno if this is for me hah

[Guest thesmileyone]

Your ego does not protect you, it causes suffering, by making you desire things you either cannot get or that it knows you will not be happy with.

The ego is important, you require it to live in what we call the world - without it you would just sit, breathe, shit, and then die of lack of food and shelter. There is no "ego death" without it you would shortly die. But what there is, is dissolution of the mind having control over your life.

To be able to finally be happy. It is blissful!!!

[lens]

@playdoh you know when you self inquiry your heart races a little bit? for me, whenever i came close to seeing the truth even though i was extremely calm my entiry body would send feelings of terror all over itself, like i was an animal being hunted, my heart would sky rocket, i would feel like throwing up, that feeling of vunerability, the feeling of "no, please not this" not wanting to die, you are going to have to go through that in the beggning, but don't worry it's not like you have to suffer 24/7 to get there, the more progress you do the less the fear will remain. There will be responses like fear/dread/depression/futility in the beggning but that is to be expected, you are going to have to embrace it though, not to ignore with distractions.

Now what i meant with bliss is that this process is literally going to kill you, all of your relationships, friends, dreams, fears, you will see them for what they trully are, it's not going to be pleasent, not saying you can't have blissfull experiences in it, i have had them before, but do not get attached to the feeling of bliss, do not think this is what it is about "being happy all the time" that's a fairy tale. i'm saying this is going to sting you way more than hug you and say that you are going to be okay. Btw the lie doesn't end, you just know it's a lie. Again do this for truth's sake

It's super fun/the most pillaging thing one can go through

[playdoh]

@lens everything sounds good so far except the video i just saw, no more desires?? say what, that's crazy. so no more crazy passionate sex haha

[Vipassana]

@playdoh watch leo's experiences with psychedelics, even if you don't want to take them, "Leo does Mushrooms" is a great video to gain a understanding why shit feels mundane and why we think sex, money and drugs are the only emotional peaks we can reach.

[lens]

@playdoh deconstruct your desires. I need this, why do i need this? because this, why will this do this? because that, why will that do that? because it. 

Get really deep into it.

 

Passionate sex oh boy can't miss out that 

yes, sex feels god, so does rubbing one out, or eating ice cream, or punching a grizzly bear in the throat and living to tell the tale. Do you really need it though? Will you die if you don't have that what you want? and if you can die from it, why is that a bad thing? those are the type of questions you should be doing, they fuck the ego up real good.

I'm not saying "be desireless! it's the only way" screw that, i'm saying don't get too attached to things, don't believe in the stories your brain wants you to believe, i need this to be happy, i need her to be safe, i need to do this to be great, none of that is true. That's your brain telling you a narrative because it needs something to make the story interesting, or else it becomes too boring. And that's what is going to suck/pillage you, accepting things, letting go.

if you need something go get it, if you think you ABSOLUTELY NEEDS THIS OMG I CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT IT OMG WHYYYYY probally just another story, go see it for yourself.

The ego needs its distractions, it needs to have fun, it needs something to keep it alive! When you see the truth you will see that everything is just a play, nothing really matters, there's nothing wrong with anything, nobody should be doing anything, and yet the show has to go on, the difference will be you will notice that you are an actor pretending to need the stuff it thinks it needs. so work on your characters desires or don't, makes 0 difference in the end, not real either way, but to you it's going to feel like that. This is kind of harsh but i wish someone had said this to me in the beggning. 

 

with that said it's okay to have fun otherwise why are you still here? nothing wrong with having sex, rubbing one out, eating ice cream, punching the grizzly bear, just don't go too overboard cause chances are your character will want to leave the play while still being in it:spoiler alert, cannot do that

[SOUL]

You said this in another thread

Quote

The only way to shed these coverings is to drop the beliefs...........When the coverings come off the light can shine

In this thread you say all of this....

1 hour ago, thesmileyone said:

Your ego does not protect you, it causes suffering, by making you desire things you either cannot get or that it knows you will not be happy with.

The ego is important, you require it to live in what we call the world - without it you would just sit, breathe, shit, and then die of lack of food and shelter. There is no "ego death" without it you would shortly die. But what there is, is dissolution of the mind having control over your life.

So there are a bunch of beliefs in that second quote..... will you be dropping them? Even the idea that beliefs are coverings to be shed is a belief.... so, drop that one, too.

It's living your life in contradiction, do you want your light to shine? Let it shine!

Edited January 18, 2018 by SOUL

[playdoh]

@lens we need a thumbsup emoticon here. So there's you're thumbs up mate 

[Joseph Maynor]

Awareness lets you detach from the Ego.  Instead of identifying with it, just be aware of it.  Don't try to repress the Ego.  That would be falling into the trap of repressing the Ego with the Ego.  

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, playdoh said:

@Leo Gura Thanks Leo. I just saw a video on Youtube of some guy saying he didn't play video games because he didn't want to give into his desires because it would lower his consciousness. And I just thought of all the things I wouldn't be able to desire anymore, like women??! Whoa I dunno if this is for me hah

Consciousness makes everything better.

Including women.

You haven't really lived yet until you've experienced conscious living.

Enlightenment doesn't rob you of anything but your illusions. You can still have sex and play video games after enlightenment. Whether you will still want to or not, is another matter.

Don't think too far ahead in this work. Just trust that pursuing the Truth is best strategy, and it will be.

When an enlightened yogi stops having sex, it's because he gets way bigger orgasms from his meditation than from sex. Samadhi is way better than sex.

[Theplay]

Hi  pardon me for my rudeness , i haven't read all the replies ... Just wanted to address the first message by playdoh :

Being Enlightened is like being 4 years old and realizing that everything is a playground

I can tell you from my personal experience that i too struggled to understand how is it beneficial for me to be empty...

Because the glimpses of the true thing i was having were deceiving me:

I was walking for hours listening to trance music and having an experience of "no self"... i felt like i am reality itself in this moments.

But now , from my direct experience i can tell you this much:

Enlightenment is anything but empty. It is complete fullness of experience and it feels like whatever you are doing

right now, is the meaning of life...

I enjoy having sex as much as i enjoy pouring myself a cup of fresh coffee   

My process was gradual and that is why i cant relate to this feeling of dread you had but my guess is that if it happens "to fast" it might be a bit shocking . I think you don't have to push it if you don't feel like it... i was on for a month, then off for two and this cycle repeated itself.

Nobody "needs" to become enlightened  - the way i see it anyways - when you have had enough you have had enough...

I strongly believe that every being that wants to . can and will become enlightened and the master can only shorten your struggle.

I want to add a paragraph from a great zen book i am reading: Eastern wisdom - the treasure box , by Nissim Amon:

"Pay attention and don't think about emptiness when contemplating the mind. Those of you who sit in meditation 

and fall into absolute emptiness will sink into black nothingness and space. just us outer space is full of real things 

the sun, the moon, the stars , planet earth, rivers and mountains , so to the mind contains real things.

The mind and the world ; all is one and one is all "

I agree that the ego is crucial for our survival at first... Because if kids were fully enlightened what is to stop them from  

putting their hand in the fire and realizing that this feeling is empty? you see the point? It dose protect us - at first

but than it becomes a heavy burden. The way i see it:

It is necessary to go full circle .

Alan watts ones spoke to a buddhist and he tolled him:

"When i knew nothing about buddhism , mountains were mountains and waters were waters.

When i understood a little buddhism , mountains were no longer mountains and waters were no longer waters.

But when i fully understood , mountains were again mountains and waters were waters."

It depicts - as i see it - the process that takes place when someone is on the path but not quite there:

It can be world shattering and very difficult to take in... but i assure you

when (and not if  ) you will get there mountains will be themselves and you will not feel "insecure"

or vulnerable because thous are fleeting feelings that do not last. 

The closes i can describe an awake state to someone who is not fully there :

The gap between your thoughts.

And from what i recall thous were the most peaceful moments i had

Good luck, good day and keep it real

Daniel.

 

p.s

Sorry for my lengthy writing i was so exited to find this community  So i wanted to answer my best.

Leo we need more people like you !

[student]

@playdoh your delusions, lies are the one "protecting" you. You start to fall apart, you are not as great as you thought you to be, as special, as "unique". You feel down because you started digging.

You may not recognize yet if you're new, the consequences of the lack of spirituality in one's life, the miserable feeling always being in the background, the disgust toward yourself, the ego, the "evil".

You started stepping into your own mind, that's why you have a feeling of dread. But it will pass, because it is easier to be dragged back into superficiality, than remain conscious, because at first you will inevitably have these feelings.

Edited January 18, 2018 by student

[snowleopard]

@playdoh  It all begins with that fixated self-identity belief. Once firmly established, all kinds of names, descriptors and add-ons can attach to it. Absent that belief, they have nothing to attach to. But insofar as they are repeatedly associated with it, and reinforce it, their falling away will feel like losing one's self-identity. All this losing and grasping and attaching will continue until all that remains is the namelessness. Even then, their is a tendency to give it a name, and then reattach to that ... such as: I am the Self; or I am Enlightened, or even  I am Nothing.  But ultimately any name that can be named must also go, and every descriptor is disposable.  Good news is, that the self-identity of 'I am one who craves sex'  just becomes the unadulterated experience. 

[Markus]

Don't confuse an experience of ego death with enlightenment. Enlightenment is not an experience.

[playdoh]

??

[cetus]

@playdoh I was reading your concerns and sounds like you should let your desires run free for now. Get it out of your system. Do whatever your ego want's to do but stay mindful and observe it. Give it some time and you'll be back. If you don't get too lost in the dream that is.

But seriously, I don't think that will happen. The seed is already planted. You can't un-see what you've already seen. Just let it gel for now and stay mindful my friend.

 

[Forestluv]

@playdoh All these questions are the self trying to maintain control. I do the same thing. I've experienced both suffering and liberation. For me, when I started to earnestly question my beliefs and my true nature, there is no turning back. Once one realizes Santa Claus doesn't exit, you can't go back. Most evolved / enlightened people I've encountered are at peace, so I have hope the process won't lead to me being a suffering asshat that harms myself and others. But, I don't get to call the shots.