Mass approach vs. self-reflection for pickup/dating

[Hardkill]

I know that Leo and some other people recently gave me great advice on my previous on how to improve my dating and sex life on my thread "I just got banned from a pickup forum." However, I realized that I still keep getting contradictory advice on how to be successful with women. I want to believe that what Leo and others like him said to me before, which was that " You're not approaching nearly enough." However, I've been told by others that I should be approaching no more than about 20-30 girl per week and that I am probably approaching too many. These guys think that that could be the reason as to why I am getting so frustrated. They believe that I am over investing too much into this and just going through the motions, without ever stepping back and taking a good hard look into what I am doing wrong. Therefore, they think that I should approach less girls and do more analyzing on what I've been doing wrong. For example, this guy:

Obviously, analyzing your mistakes after making a certain amount of them is important, especially in the long-run. Also, yes the quality of each approach is important as well. However, I am not sure who to believe or follow because of all the contradictory advice. Sure, I could just try one way and see how that goes; however, what if I end up wasting so much time making so many unnecessary mistakes that could have been put to better use on a truly effective method for dating and pickup? Hell, I already feel like I've wasted so much time with almost all of the approaches both warm and cold that I've ever made and have virtually every pickup and dating method out there from A-Z that was supposed to work. It's so frustrating. I wonder what people here, including mods like Leo, have to say about this.

[YaNanNallari]

Well there are many ways to do it and something might work better for someone else than others. Honestly fuck pickup and just develop yourself in other ways. If you developed yourself enough this wouldn't be an issue to you anyway. If you want to do pickup it's more so that you can see that's it's not the end goal to get laid or have a status saying "In a relationship". Sure you can develop social skills but pickup tends to go for something else than harmonious relationships imo. So now you can be glad you have this opportunity to change things for you

[Spiral]

You have already approached quite a few girls, so I would advice analysing what is stopping from being more successful in the practically. I mean it can be as simple as what you wear or your hygiene. 

We can provide feedback if you upload a video of yourself taking about something and wearing and looking like you do when you game. I would make it unlisted and simply send the link.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Spiral

[Gabriel Antonio]

I really resonate with Leo's advice on a recent video: be more like a girl. 

Pickup never helped me. The thing about relationships is that it all depends on the circumstance, so you cannot expect a magic technique that will be foolproof. I'd suggest to throw away all those rules about what you should do or shouldn't do to get girls.

It is much simpler than you might think... 

Regarding taking more action or stop taking action, if you have explored the field enough, and you feel kinda fed up, I'd suggest focusing on other priorities in your life. A relationship shouldn't be your goal. Just like money, status, sex are also bad goals. They are by-products. 

Maybe you should focus more on your life purpose, and results in dating will shower. And the funny thing is, you will not even care. You will go, "Wow! I was desesperate for THIS? This is so shallow!" 

Remember: the more needy you are, the more you repel people. 

[Hintersfjall]

As others have said, pickup is really just about developing the ability to meet women. How to convey yourself in a way that gets you from cold to warm. After that you require relationship skills that do require some pickup skills, but also a different set of skills that are actually contrary to what pickup advocates. For example, with pickup you need empathy in so far as you need to read the woman and show that you're not a deranged psychopath, but the majority of it is tossing aside her wants and replacing them with your own. Relationships require much more compromise than that. 

If you're already really good at approaching, what you need to do is cut down on it and start working on longer, higher quality interactions. Mass approaching is to get over the approach anxiety hump. I'd say you're probably making the transition from beginner to intermediate. I'm in the same boat. 

[Hardkill]

33 minutes ago, Hintersfjall said:

As others have said, pickup is really just about developing the ability to meet women. How to convey yourself in a way that gets you from cold to warm. After that you require relationship skills that do require some pickup skills, but also a different set of skills that are actually contrary to what pickup advocates. For example, with pickup you need empathy in so far as you need to read the woman and show that you're not a deranged psychopath, but the majority of it is tossing aside her wants and replacing them with your own. Relationships require much more compromise than that. 

If you're already really good at approaching, what you need to do is cut down on it and start working on longer, higher quality interactions. Mass approaching is to get over the approach anxiety hump. I'd say you're probably making the transition from beginner to intermediate. I'm in the same boat. 

So then why have some coaches like Hayley Quinn and a couple of her associates said that they believe that I am over investing too much into this and feel like I am just going through the motions, without ever stepping back and taking a good hard look into what I am doing wrong? Why do they think that I should approach less girls and do more analyzing on what I've been doing wrong?

[aurum]

@Hardkill

It's not "either / or".

The winning formula is mass approach AND analyzing what you're doing.

If you're just mass approaching and not self-reflecting, you'll improve, but you'll make a ton of the same mistakes over and over again. Your growth will be slower than necessary.

If you're just self-reflecting, you're not getting the tangible experiences you need to develop those social skills.

17 hours ago, Hardkill said:

However, I've been told by others that I should be approaching no more than about 20-30 girl per week and that I am probably approaching too many.

That would have never worked for me.

When I was hitting it hard, it wouldn't be uncommon for me to approach 20-30 girls a night.

I see a lot of new guys in pickup. The guys who get good are usually the guys who just embrace the fact they're going to have to approach a ton. The guys who never get better are the guys still going out 1-2x week and do three approaches.

Sure, once you've already got good game and a solid social circle, 20-30 girls a week would be more than enough. But that's not the level where you're at. You're at the bottom.

And it's okay if you're at the bottom. But that means you're going to need a different strategy than guys who are a bit ahead of you.

[Hardkill]

5 minutes ago, aurum said:

@Hardkill

It's not "either / or".

The winning formula is mass approach AND analyzing what you're doing.

If you're just mass approaching and not self-reflecting, you'll improve, but you'll make a ton of the same mistakes over and over again. Your growth will be slower than necessary.

If you're just self-reflecting, you're not getting the tangible experiences you need to develop those social skills.

That would have never worked for me.

When I was hitting it hard, it wouldn't be uncommon for me to approach 20-30 girls a night.

I see a lot of new guys in pickup. The guys who get good are usually the guys who just embrace the fact they're going to have to approach a ton. The guys who never get better are the guys still going out 1-2x week and do three approaches.

Sure, once you've already got good game and a solid social circle, 20-30 girls a week would be more than enough. But that's not the level where you're at. You're at the bottom.

And it's okay if you're at the bottom. But that means you're going to need a different strategy than guys who are a bit ahead of you.

Ah ok, that makes sense. So then, it sounds like coaches like Hayley Quinn and her team either don’t exactly know what they talking about or perhaps didn’t do a sufficient job at clearly explaining how to much to approach as a beginner. I mean they did say that u should approach a lot per day as a newbie if you have approach anxiety in order to get COMFORTABLE with talking to new girls. However, from what they told me regarding how much to approach AFTER u get comfortable enough with cold (or even warm) approaching random women, they basically told me that I should do less volume and more analysis on what could I’ve have done better. They also also were like “don’t be like a door to door salesman trying to approach a high volume of women and knocking on doors until someone says yes. Be more like someone who displays a great art piece in an art gallery. Though you had me convinced with your response that that way sounds good in an idealistic manner, but very likely won’t ever work for beginners because doing it that way will give them insufficient and inconsistent reference experiences for them to learn from.

So, all in all, to get the best results you of course need to do both mass approaching and analyzing your mistakes. However, it’s always better to just do mass approaching alone (especially as a beginner) then to just do self-reflection on each of your approaches when you’re only doing a minimal amount of approaches per week every week per month per year.

 

[Hardkill]

Thank you all very much for responses. I thought they were all definitely good, especially yours Aurum. Yours was excellent. I think this really help me out a lot.