"We don't know where thoughts come from"? srsly??!

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse Critical thinking is of the utmost importance in life. I am assuming you have experienced the absolute, and you are saying someone could ‘get there’ with critical thinking? Maybe I am misunderstanding you. 

[Nahm]

40 minutes ago, Faceless said:

@Nahm that’s is where insight comes in. Insight is not of thought. Thought is limited, conditioned, partial, and always fragmented. Where as insight which is whole, limitless, unconditioned, is not. 

I agree. I would add that insight is a word that could be referencing the entire dynamic though. Do you differentiate between insight, epiphany, revolution, and ultimately absolute / God?

[SOUL]

@Faceless Someone who has an inability to recall or retain memories still thinks, they are thinking of present moment interactions and their ability to function may be inhibited because of their memory debilitation but they still have thoughts.

[Faceless]

@Nahm That’s right. Can the the limitless “that which is beyond thought” be captured through a limited movement such as thought. 

I see your question and it’s very important

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse  I experienced what I would refer to as unveiling / awakening, one day, a couple minutes into a regular morning meditation, after years of meditation, the Oneness just popped very out of the blue. But the experience of the absolute is like a quadrabillion times transcendent to the oneness - which btw, I am not trying to downplay at all. It’s beautiful and life changing in the best way on it’s own experiential note. 

[Faceless]

@SOUL I understand but if those memories were totally wiped away could one think. Little memory little ability or capacity to think. 

[Nahm]

@Faceless That is a great question, and phrased really well. IMO, it can’t be thought, that is why one must go very far beyond thinking to experience it. Then, after the experience...one would not question if it can be thought because they would be very blatantly aware all is taking place within what they are, as what they are would have completely changed. Changed in a sense that was not only unthinkable to them, but literally unimaginable. Unfathomable. So one can know what one really is, but can’t communicate it to someone what is even of the utmost in critical thinking. 

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse Of course critical thinking would end there. That is why we must go beyond thinking. 

[Nahm]

@Faceless Once experienced, all “if” statements become really pleasantly funny. I do not mean I am laughing at you or your words. I respect where you’re at. It’s an incommunicable change, and everything is light and funny as hell.

[Faceless]

8 minutes ago, Nahm said:

I agree. I would add that insight is a word that could be referencing the entire dynamic though. Do you differentiate between insight, epiphany, revolution, and ultimately absolute / God?

When I use the word insight I’m referring to that which is immeasurable, beyond measure, not fragmented, whole, or truth. 

So yeah total, entire, complete. 

[Faceless]

@Nahm yeah words are only pointers lol

[SOUL]

@Faceless Yes, thought still happens even without memory recall and retention. In fact, it could be argued that a disease or disorder that inhibits one's memory may actually free thought from the conditioning of the past so could be a benefit for enlightenment work. Consider how much of enlightenment ideas are about not being distracted by the past and future so to be aware of only the present moment.

Edited January 17, 2018 by SOUL

[Nahm]

@Mighty Mouse @Faceless ?? Awesome convo. Thank you guys. Speaking of reality, gotta go to work now. 

[Faceless]

1 minute ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Yes we were talking about tools critical thinking not the ultimate answer, I agree, but it's a tool for unraveling the false.

 

Sounds like romantic bs to me.

@Mighty Mouse

Perhalps “you” will get there ?

[Ben Landrail]

The first question would be what we understand by thinking. If we're talking about the process of operating mental concepts through the use of language, then here's how I see it. Language was invented by humans, using the brain, and is learned by humans, using the brain. If you don't learn a human language early on (cf feral child), your high-level abstract thinking capacity is severely limited. I'm not sure we can call what this creatures do thinking as we know it. 

Without language-bound thinking you still have intuition and awareness, but I think everyone would agree that both these wonderful things can get you only so far. 

@Faceless arguably, if we wipe out all the memories - and the knowledge of language with it - a person would still be able to think, but in a very limited way. He/she would have to build all the mental concepts anew, and I'm not sure if it's even possible. So we're back to the definition of thinking. 

EDIT: another interesting question would be how did pre-language humans think? Or have we always had some sort of language, even though utterly rudimentary, like a combination of gestures and growls?

Edited January 17, 2018 by Ben Landrail
new thoughts

[Faceless]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Mighty Mouse @Faceless ?? Awesome convo. Thank you guys. Speaking of reality, gotta go to work now. 

Thank you 

[Faceless]

@Ben Landrail hello friend. 

Let me get back to u on that. Got to take kid to school

[Faceless]

@SOUL I’ll get back to u friend. Take Kid to school 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Ben Landrail

These are good questions friend

maybe we should go about them one at a time. 

Is not language and image forming thought? Or is there a thought that is non linguistic and image forming? 

If memory, knowledge, and experience had totally ceased would there even be a center in which could think? If the memory, knowledge, experience was able to resume after that wiping out and clearing then that would imply that this center would start to form afresh. But if there was an inability to contain, hold  those memories wouldn’t there remain a state of “no me” ?

 

which question should we inquire into first? Which ever one you have asked we can start with first if I like. 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Faceless

[Ben Landrail]

@Faceless

Yeah, completely forgot about images. I believe there are non-linguistic thoughts, i.e. simply mental images. But for an image to exist it has to originate from somewhere. At the very least, there has to be a basic foundation, a collection of forms and lines. Unless, of course, we're talking about drug-induced hallucinations of which I've little understanding. 

Here's another good one for you: if one is born blind, deaf, mute and insensitive to any other outside stimuli, will one be capable of thinking? Language is out of the question, visuals and sound too. What would the content of one's mind be?

If all contents of the mind ceased to be, that would mean that the neural connections would also disappear and we would have a brain with billions of isolated neurons. I'm not in a position to make even an educated guess about what this kind of brain would be capable of. But my uneducated guess is that it'd be totally screwed. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Ben Landrail
Grammar