"We don't know where thoughts come from"? srsly??!

[mp22]

All the experiences talked about whether through drugs or meditation occur in the brain but because some cannot accept that this process is not a "mystical"  one, they get rid of the brain.

 

So we are in a dream and one of the ways to figure it out is to take psychedelics (substances which are also part of the dream btw). 

[thehero]

@Leo Gura

I am forever grateful for your insights. You are very bold for talking about these topics. Thanks 

[Faceless]

@Ben Landrail

Yeah great question... without sensation would there be anything In which thought could associate or identify with? 

 

[Forestluv]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is a topic that needs to be very seriously contemplated, and not debated or discussed.

You have to sit down and force yourself to contemplate your rock-bottom assumptions about reality:

• Why do I assume reality exist?
• How can I be sure reality is real?
• What does "real" really mean, anyway?
• What is existence?
• Could I be deceiving myself?
• Does consciousness exist in a brain? Or is "the brain" existing within consciousness?
• If the brain is inside the universe, how can the universe be inside the brain?
• Etc.

This contemplation must be done extremely carefully, avoiding all personal self-biases and cultural assumptions.

Very few people do this kind of contemplation seriously. And discussing it with people will not help you, but only distract you. It works like doing a mathematical proof. You have to trace through the logic of it to see how the materialist paradigm contradicts itself.

And it definitely DOES contradict itself.

I can tell you right now, having spent years doing this contemplation, and experiencing the Absolute many times now, there is no such thing as reality. But believing me is totally useless. You need to go through the proof yourself. I'm just telling you what you will discover in the ultimate end. Don't be surprised if this process kills you. That's precisely the point. You are deeply involved in this process. The misunderstanding of reality runs straight through you. Which is why it's so difficult to correct. But it's doable for those who are really serious about life.

Good luck and have faith that it will be worth the effort. You will be pleasantly surprised if you succeed

I've had some glimpses into nonduality, yet don't get the "there is no reality" thing. 

What is the definition of real?

Are reality and existence different?

How can one say something does not exist? 

My experience now seems like existence just "IS", while reality is my interpretation of existence. My story.

[playdoh]

Whoa! When I opened this forum this morning it only had 2 pages now 6. Seems doesn't update all the time

[playdoh]

@DrMobius yes I meant to end that sentence with telling him that I know that's not the answer he wanted to hear, the scientific explanation. He just wanted to correct me 

[playdoh]

but yeah some good answers definitely. Basically there's no rational explantion for these questions. There is an answer but I have to discover it for myself through some deep contemplation 

[Jamie Universe]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 6:31 PM, playdoh said:

@h inandout anymore tips how to crush the ego? 

lol, just do everything you hate

jk

 

But the ego hates change for one thing, because this concept of 'you' is damaged when you change, because this 'you' concept is alive because of the thing your changing / Leo made a video on his blog about changing perspectives, that's one way. It also just degrading any beliefs about you / also don't take any of my advice to seriously, go try it for yourself, I haven't even had an enlightenment experience yet) 

[Guest thesmileyone]

I don't know where thoughts come from.

I have reached the point where I don't care either. They just...occur. I don't attach to them most of the time so its is irrelevant.

When the mind, ergo, ego is in control there is this irresistible urge to understand how everything works. Whether you do or not, it will still occur. So it is a huge waste of time.

When the mind cannot figure out how something works it just....stops. You glimpse the peace that is existence. This peace is samadhi. It can occur for an instant or all the time. Hence meditation.

The funny thing is when you either ignore the thought stream or you allow it and don't attach...it stops. Interesting eh?

 

 

[Faceless]

Even if there is an ignoring, a desire to not attach to the thought this is still a movement by the center which is “thought” to change what is actually happening “the thought” to what the self desires should be. 

Its escaping what is to what should be. It’s an attempt to change a fact to an idea

Edited January 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

If the thinker sees itself as seperate form the thought there will always be conflict between the thoughts and the “thinker” 

Edited January 18, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

?

[Leo Gura]

19 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I've had some glimpses into nonduality, yet don't get the "there is no reality" thing. 

What is the definition of real?

Are reality and existence different?

How can one say something does not exist? 

My experience now seems like existence just "IS", while reality is my interpretation of existence. My story.

What existed before you were born? If it didn't exist before you were born, it's not real.

[Joseph Maynor]

20 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I've had some glimpses into nonduality, yet don't get the "there is no reality" thing. 

What is the definition of real?

Are reality and existence different?

How can one say something does not exist? 

My experience now seems like existence just "IS", while reality is my interpretation of existence. My story.

People don't really know how to separate existential truth and relative truth very well.  Just because existential truth is not conceptual doesn't negate all relative truth.  I think a lot of people get so bought into the theory that they lose common sense.  Common sense, though not existentially true, is still a valid form of knowledge.  One just needs to keep in mind the lack of certainty (often but not always) found in relative truth.  Just because you doubt beliefs using enlightenment theory as a counter-weight theory doesn't mean that everything you believed before is not truth.  It just means it's not existential truth.  Existential truth is simply what is sensed by you in the present moment.  It's amazing how confused people are by these Epistemological issues.  You don't want to negate all relative truth using existential truth, and vice versa.  They are two different things.  Relative truth is conceptual truth whereas existential truth is awareness of reality in the present moment.   People are no good at walking and chewing gum at the same time with truth.  The Mind hates the fact that there are two kinds of truth and prefers to have only one.  That's where you get the attempt to simply and purify truth and reduce it to an overly-restricted foundation.  This has been happening in Philosophy for time immemorial.  People have screwed up notions of Epistemology that they cling too tightly to.  

Edited January 18, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[SOUL]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What existed before you were born? If it didn't exist before you were born, it's not real.

 Why do believe this?

 

18 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Existential truth is simply what is sensed by you in the present moment. 

Often what contributes to the confusion is that existential truth is also relative.

[Joseph Maynor]

15 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Often what contributes to the confusion is that existential truth is also relative.

Here's a quote I got from one of Emerald's videos:

"Mindfulness is the reality that gives rise to words.  Words are only a pale shadow of this reality."  

[SOUL]

@Joseph Maynor  Even without the accumulation of senses that creates perception on which the mind builds paradigms out of ideas and concepts that we use words to communicate our awareness observes the ever-changing nature of existence.

[Faceless]

There’s perception, sensation, then comes thought. The “i thought” through association with that sensation creates an image in relation to that sensation. Then arises abstractions and so on...

Doesn’t this word exsistential imply things as in “thinks”? Therefore reality? 

[Joseph Maynor]

6 minutes ago, Faceless said:

There’s perception, sensation, then comes thought. The “i thought” through association with that sensation creates an image in relation to that sensation. Then arises abstractions and so on...

Doesn’t this word exsistential imply things as in “thinks”? Therefore reality? 

Technical terms are completely arbitrary.  I follow Emerald's terminology here.  Existential truth vs Relative truth.  One might label differently, however.

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor yeah we would have to be clear on meanings if we were trying to meet one another in communion?