How to stop being influnced by rank,hierarchies or authorities ?

[ValiantSalvatore]

So, I was just curious also for this for a more or less long time, since I started "self-actualizing" 2-3 years ago. How is it possible to stop being influenced by authorities, rank or hierachies? I always felt since I am a "miniority" in a sense because I am half afro-american and half white ( however political correct these words are in the eng language ) and even though there are a lot of people in my region that have a similar background, I always felt different or people treated me slightly different based, on the concept that they had about me. The concept already was different simply because I look different and I bet a lot of people can relate even when it is just that their nose is bigger or just some other physical alteration. Even though I am half american I did not grew up learning the eng language I have two very very good friends who are also half ( phlilipinese and croatian ) they both also did not learn their other "native" language. It is kind of funny to see or to observe how ethnocentcrism kicks in when people try to claim you as on of them, oh you are black, you are asian, you are german , you are croatian and impose their concept of how one should behave onto you. Of course culutural differences are fun , yet not when they are regarded as truth, which can be difficult to distinguish what is wrong and right when two cultures are quite similar, yet different in small aspects. 

Anyway the point that I am trying to make besides noting that race or identity is a social construct. Is how can one be free of the influences of being put into a certain box, rank or hierachie ? I tried psychedelics (AL-Lad and 1P-LSD) and could see how on different levels of consciousness, I just functioned and thought completely differently, I could see how other people define their concept of themselves and have enough empathy to intuitiveley go through their thought process in that moment, to realize or rather recognize how they create a concept of themselves and I could even see that my friend also tried to figure out what I was thinking ( he is into mindgames...), yet he could not grasp what I am thinking, so how ever odd or condescending this may sound, I felt like I need to lower my "stage" refering to Ken wilber here.. to let him have insight into my thought process so he could trust me, so we are not playing mind games and just enjoy the moment. 

I also remember a story from an audiobook from Alan Watts which explained that, when you are tired of competing in the "game of life" ( keeping up with the jonses, materialism, social reputations, maybe dominance hierachy ?? ) you become interested in Zen, and if I remember correctly he pointed out that this game never ends, yet that you learn to go with the flow of being involved in a game that you can't quit and can't win. You would be part of the game simply because you enjoy it or simply to be part of it ? 

So... noting that you would be part of the game simply to enjoy it. I watched an interview of Shinzen Young with some guy who I thought was awesome, yet I can't remember the name.. called buddah at the gas pump, there are two episodes you can watch them on youtube. I watch this after taking psychedelics (1P-LSD) so I was in the "afterglow" or "offset" stage, I perceived let's say for convenience sake a natural flow of hierachy based on actual manifastations of certain aspects of ones physicality/personaility/mentaility? ( I can't take me serious writing this xDD )So, let's say a person is more empathic, has better people skills, is cognitvely better equipped, or has some other skill, trait, quality, aspect that makes him different from another person and therefore lies in the possibility to be better in that aspect or even domain of life and that is what I observed pretty much imo when I watched the video and the two of them talking, yet it is and was very different from normal conversations or normal occurences of differences in skill in a "mundane" situation. It somehow shocked me that both of them seemed not to be free of rank, hierachie, status etc. yet Shinzen seemed free of status and the general topics in these conversations where fking mind blowing and very very deep. It was scary and very uplifting at the same time. I definitely can't tell if a meditation master is free of something that I am entagled in and this statement already implies rank. (IDK if the strange loop topic covers this completely topic already completely, yet be Leo removing rank for instance from this forum it is insane how much we are influenced by rank , status etc. yes it has use, but can you be free and have it 's use ?)

 

So, I was just wondering if it is possible to be completely free of hierachy, rank, status in a pretty quick way. Since it does bother me a lot. The other guy in the conversation was a TM teacher for 25 years and he seemed very very free of rank, status etc, yet you could see for instance that he felt bad when he could not express something or understand something, that he either knew he could understand if he had the ability or felt inferior ( observing body language), btw I also felt disgusted by myself to cold heartedly analyse people as they where some sort of animal or insect . That hit me quite hard..

I could try to get more out of my memory, yet it would take to long. I had many insights watching this video one thing that "bothered" me was that somehow it seemed that Shinzen was pissed because he knew somehow, somewhere that his techniques work or rather that some techniques are not that efficent and they should follow his or some others that are "legit". The other person was in TM movement for a very long time and said that 95% of the people he knows quitted TM. 

I am not sure if I am making this topic to deep or if that even makes sense to some people. I am reading more about the "rational" or scientifically more or less valid statments of how dominance hierachies and hierachies in general occur, yet I would just dabble around in this subjects, since I feel I do not know enough yet. So, here are just my observations and contemplations of the topic rank in a nutshell over the course of my live.

[DocHoliday]

@ValiantSalvatore Soooooo much text, dude. I've read like 85% of it hoping that you would arrive at some definitve point you'd want to make or at least some question that people could answer, but, as it seemed as if you wanted to know whether you can break out of the game of rank and status and all that and if there's a fast and effective way to do so, here's my take on that: yes you can "break out" of the game, but as Alan Watts already pointed out you can never quit it. Participating in modern day culture automatically makes you a part of that game, so if you didn't exactly live out in the woods all by yourself, there will always be that game of status and rank since our collective consciousness hasn't been able to evolve past that so far but what you can do is to recognize it for what it is - a game, just as everything else like politics, economy, education, profession or heritage is. It's all part of the ego, that's why people (have to) play it. Therefore, the only way to be less affected by that game, is to break down your ego and get rid of it as much as possible and build up compassion and empathy towards others. Competition and the illusion of status or rank are only then created, when you compare yourself to others, when you put yourself into contrast against others and therefore define yourself in relation to others. Thta's a big part of the ego - so, once you get rid of it, you're free from it.  

[ValiantSalvatore]

@DocHoliday  I wanted to mention many aspects that include hierachies,rank, status etc. Like Ken Wilbers' Integral Map, Spiral Dynamics and psychedelics, dominance hierachies and or simply everyday life with my example of race, which also could include as you said economy, education, politics etc. 

I was hoping that any of these observations or insights have some truths or could trigger some insights for others. I was not sure where I was going with this.  Yet, I wanted to question if there is a way to become completely free of rank, status etc. Or if even someone is free here on this forum or interacts with people who are free, so they could see the potential of becoming free of rank, status etc and eloborate on that. I don't know if it is possible but when I look at people who are enlightend it is so different from the usual state of consciousness, especially after taking psychedelics. 

Yes, I noticed that one could become more free of the status game by stoping judgement inwhich meditation has helped me a lot. Yet, to which degree can you be free ? Are you still influenced by some aspects when you are enlightend ? I am still new to most of these subjects I have a good to decent overview - by listening to Shizen Youngs the Science of Enlightenment (1998 Edition), Ken Wilbers Kosmic Consciousness and a couple of books from Alan Watts and Eckhart Tolle. To how day to day life can look like when you keep working on let's say consciousness. Now I am reading about and hearing about the dominance hierachie, some part of our brain keeping track of where we are on the social ladder, how we compete for rank etc. And I can see clearly how we tend to behave like animals sometimes when we compete for rank(like bonobos and chimpanzes do), so is a meditation master an enlightend person or a certain stage of consciousness free of that? 

[cirkussmile]

Yes. You can be completely free from everything when you realize that everything is in your mind.

[DocHoliday]

@ValiantSalvatore Yes, those who compete for status and rank are desperately trapped in their lower primal instinctual behaviour patterns, that's for sure. To me, it's just another branch of the survival game manifesting itself. Regarding your final question, yes, that's what I was referring to in my attempt to define the arising of status and rank, so when you get rid of your identification with your ego, then through that, the need to esablish rank or status completely disappears. That's what enlightenment is all about, realising that you are no differnt in any way than the person next to you or your prime minister or head of state or whoever - enlightenment makes everybody equal (as they already are by nature, but the majority of people just doesn't realise that because of self-deception).

[Faceless]

@cirkussmile

Where do we think this “i”comes from anyway lol

[Joseph Maynor]

What you want to learn how to do is watch reality very keenly.  When you do that you”ll realize that rank, hierarchies, authorities are all based off culture.  And culture has nothing to do with reality.  When you can see that, you just watch it.  You don’t try to control anything or repress anything.  You just become aware that Existential Truth has nothing to do with culture or beliefs.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Joseph Maynor Okay, thanks for the feedback, this sounds very good. I can see in a sense how culture intervenes with rank, hierachies, authorities. I can see the culture, but I have no clue what reality is lol. I will keep out an eye for that and learn more from books in time. 

1 hour ago, DocHoliday said:

@ValiantSalvatore Yes, those who compete for status and rank are desperately trapped in their lower primal instinctual behaviour patterns, that's for sure. To me, it's just another branch of the survival game manifesting itself. Regarding your final question, yes, that's what I was referring to in my attempt to define the arising of status and rank, so when you get rid of your identification with your ego, then through that, the need to esablish rank or status completely disappears. That's what enlightenment is all about, realising that you are no differnt in any way than the person next to you or your prime minister or head of state or whoever - enlightenment makes everybody equal (as they already are by nature, but the majority of people just doesn't realise that because of self-deception).

Alright, I am just wondering now, even if the need disapears do these primal instinctual patterns still happen ? Even when you realize that you are not different from everybody else etc(are enlightend), are parts of your brain still active and regulating these primal instincutal patterns or do you just function on a different "level", meaning that different brain regions are interacting more marginalizing/ostracizing the more instinctual parts or older more primal parts of ones brain ? I don't know how legit this question is since there are studies that show brain changes through meditation, yet I don't know what parts of the brain  and how it changes and how far one could go even if science can't prove / detect some potential changes ? 

[SOUL]

Start with inner work, cease to see them there first and that pattern will manifest throughout consciousness.

Some people will even create rank, hierarchies and authorities within themselves, ego of one rank and awareness on another, the physical, emotional and physical may be viewed with separation and levels of importance. They will see the authority of truth endowed by or coming from one part of themselves with another part dismissed as a false illusion of deception.

If you see it in yourself, even within your own consciousness and inner perception there isn't much that can be done to avoid the perception on the outside. It's an inevitable expression of the inner view so cease to perceive it in consciousness and it will manifest that way in every other observation.

[Joseph Maynor]

Watch this video if you wanna learn about what non- conceptual reality is.

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Joseph Maynor I like the explanation although I "believe" that most of that I noticed somehow subconsciously even if that is even possible I don't know. I tried this technique 

 It is similar to what she explains at the end. Where she says that sound appears in the back of one's head, this goes a little further. I am still new to the technique so, I can't notice the field where thoughts and vision do arise that good yet, but it does seem to occur in these areas. IMO

@SOUL Thanks, I see this now more clearly! 

[Taylor]

Every minute, every day, to every person, show love. I think embodying love can be one of the most useful tools for every human beings.

Keep it simple. Embodying love and allowing yourself to be encapsulated in it, is different than love like hugging everyone or putting yourself in a giver position. 

This is not to be underestimated. Although it may seem off the wall, I believe what I am saying is a bit often overlooked. Love is a drug that, at this point, I believe heals a variety of "conditions."