Why not end it?

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, Thanatos13 said:

But I think vague spiritual nonsense like “you’re already dead”

If that's vague, then you probably never had any Enlightment experience and don't know what is being talked about.

Or maybe you had and it has strucked you as something else, totally not death. I am curious what would that be then?

[pluto]

5 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

Direct experience is the most flawed testimony of all, even the ancient skeptics knew that. You can use that line to justify literally any claim in existence, it would even negate anything you are trying to say to someone just because their experience is different. Even then there is no way to know that what you experience is truth. Just because it feels so doesn’t mean it is.

Its also rather fallacious to use the cell analogy with the body. You cannot assume there is something greater.

If i "assumed" i wouldn't of commented in the first place

[Max_V]

@Thanatos13 You are not the one who chose to manifest into this body, so you have no authority over when it should end.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Max_V

[Omni]

11 minutes ago, Max_V said:

@Thanatos13 You are not the one who chose to manifest into this body, so you have no authority over when it should end.

Wouldn't authority in itself be a form of illusion too?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Omni

[student]

@Thanatos13 "the beauty of life" is something you gain. Yes, what is miserable exists, what is "ugly" exists. Consequences exists. You're miserable right now, you're giving yourself answers, explanations, you are delusional, you want to kill yourself, but you want answers from people, you're unsure.

There is no purpose indeed. The unconsciousness hides it. Unconscious people are "lucky". But as you grow your consciousness, as you start to see these things, you'll also start to "know" things intuitively. It starts not to be a matter of what is true or not, what has purpose or not, if I should kill myself or not. Explanations, superficial answers becomes things of past. The new kind of knowledge starts to make itself known. You start to know a new kind of knowledge, to acquire a new kind of knowledge. The knowledge that you feel, that is simply "true".

Suicide, death, you start to see them for what they are, and also start to feel that your existence has a purpose after all, but another kind of purpose than known by "ordinary" people.

Yes the life is suffering when you are not conscious of what you are. It is all about suffering and deception until you start to see. That's why you meditate, try to be aware every moment, because something is neglected. "Something" that you intuitively know you have to discover.

[Damir Elezi]

Leaving the spiritual stuff out, I think you're right. It's optional. However, your choice has to be well made. Is throwing something interesting like your life away just because of momentarily suffering really worth it? What if there is something more to life than it seems? When you're alive, you have an opportunity to find that out. To me, killing oneself seems like a cop-out. Somebody being so scared, so overwhelmed, that they don't even bother to look further. This life can be beautiful and I think we all know that. Also, our whole organism is literally made to protect us from harm. If one's mind is so twisted that it would rather go against human most basic instinct than put up with challenge, I think there is something deeply dysfunctional in his/her mind that should be resolved before making any quick decisions. 

[BjarkeT]

@cirkussmilesorry but how is that going to help someone who has suicidal thoughts? 

@Thanatos13 i really hope everything turns out well related to the purpose there is actually done research on if there is a purpose but it depends one which on you mean as it can have serval meanings, for example, something called pre-existing purpose(all you need to do is find your purpose then you will be happy) vs craft man mindset (getting really good at something meaningful is what give you purpose/passion) cal newport argues that the idea of a pre exsisting one in most cases doesn't exist and one who goes with the craft man mindset is morelikely to have passion about what they do  credits goes to cal newport from so good they can't ignore you

Edited January 16, 2018 by BjarkeT

[njuufa]

You see, this thought where you think like " yea, its time. I cannot take this anymore" type of suicidal thought. This "this" what you cannot take anymore. Suicide is not going to make a difference. "this" remains even after your suicide.  

[WaterfallMachine]

Tsk. Tsk. I think all you people are rushing Thanatos into something too fast — that’s advanced already with the dying ego and all. Start with things like a few minutes of meditation or well, this.

From a perspective as we are in the universe, life has no purpose. The universe doesn’t view us as important. We’re a tiny speck in the middle of the universe.

But that doesn’t mean that life needs to be ended. It doesn’t matter as much if the world doesn’t think we matter, than how much the world matters to us. Purpose may or may not be given — If it is, we get the final choice of whether we follow that purpose passed to us. If there is none, we can create our own purpose to live in the world. What if there really is no pupise though? Then screw that. Rebel and find a purpose anyway. The philosophies of Existentialism and Absurdism.

It may be something you’re predisposed to enjoy or something from the environment — a drive for curiosity and truth, a drive for fun and play, a drive for duty and service, a drive for compassion and authenticity, anything.

It could be a gaining a small sense of achievement over little things as simple as doing daily tasks well. These all add up to big things. 

I can’t prove to you that all this ego death, not existing and so on will work. But if you search online, there’s a lot of scientific evidence that meditation allows a range of mental health benefits. When you practice focusing on something like the breath, you practice focusing more deeply in everyday life. Awareness of problems is what allows for awareness of how to better yourself.

Those vague spiritual concepts? I gotta admit — I can’t prove it to you, and it can’t be explained. Because it’s a state that’s only found by removing words and concepts — only for experience. Think of it like martial arts . You can read a book or somehing online, but you don’t understand it if you don’t do it — all the kicks, punches, blocks, and all. 

It’s not something you gain by believing something blindly or even believing in something at all. But something you gain by doubting and removing false beliefs — which some people here aren’t making a good job of making you go that direction. 

You can only discover it for yourself with meditation if it works or not. You can only truly verify if something is true if you don’t just do armchair philosophy, but to go experiment out in the real world.

Your choice is yours.

Edited January 16, 2018 by WaterfallMachine

[David_eh]

Keep in mind that the notion that the universe doesn't need us is also just that. 

 

Keep the wonder alive and don't cling to your views.

[SOUL]

@Mighty Mouse  I'm honored that you would allow me to be a mirror for you and may the reflection you see be healing.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SOUL

[SOUL]

16 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

There just isn’t a plausible or logical reason to carry on. One has to “make” life worth living, which speaks negatively as to the state of life. Death requires nothing. There isn’t a reward for a “life well lived”. 

There could be countless "reasons" to carry on but there's no guarantee you will find any of them plausible or logical to you, that doesn't mean there isn't and they aren't, just not for you. They don't even have to be reasoned by logic, they can be emotional, physical or spiritual reasons or any combination of them all. Maybe even no reason at all, just being for the enjoyment and fulfillment of being in well being.

One can "make life worth living" just as much as one can 'make life not worth living', neither of the two are a default absolute that is a 'truth' for everyone and no, it doesn't speak negatively as to the state of life, it's how you interpret that from it and choose to agree with that interpretation so view it that way. Again your personal opinion is not the default absolute ad universal truth, it's your default personal truth you absolutely project onto the universe.....and apparently aren't even aware of it.

Actually death requires something, there are conditions that are required for biological death to occur just as there are conditions for biological life to occur or biological life to persist. Even the perception of one doing "nothing" to keep oneself alive is actually doing something to bring about those conditions that allows for biological life to cease so bring on biological death. Are you starting to see your own conditioned bias yet?

A life well lived is it's own reward, what more are you seeking than just to have a sense of well being in life? You expecting a participation trophy? Maybe a cookie... you want a cookie? That sense of well being, the fulfillment, joy and peace in it is such a precious thing, if you had it at all you wouldn't be questioning it and you surely wouldn't be attempting to distract others from it.

There are people in this world who are genuinely struggling with this dilemma about life, I find your posting here disingenuous using such a tragic situation as a means to a philosophical debate so be "right" online and appease your ego as quite insensitive... but that is just my opinion.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SOUL

[ProblemSolving]

I think that the true beauty of life is all that is. Accepting everything that is. Making a change in your life if you really want to. But there is no right or wrong. This includes me not saying "Suicide is wrong".

Because when someone out there makes the decision, who am I to judge? He or she was so selfish commiting suicide? There are a lot of selfish people out there, I guess here in this forum as well. I think I am selfish too. But who am I to control someone elses decision to commit suicide or not?

Obviously it is not an easy thing to talk about when someone has a lot of compassion and tries to help someone with suicidal thoughts. Unfortunately my compassion is not the best. I am not here to help others. I try to bring certain change into my own life. And when people in real life see me as a role model, why not. But I will never force my help on others even when its about more serious topics.

Statistics say that every 30 seconds or so someone commits suicide. Thats a freakin lot. I had some thoughts as a teenager but I was too patient and now too mature to consider such nonsense. We will die anyway, why speed up this process. The value of life is now. My goal is not that when I am old I will be thinking that I have lived a good life. Because when I will be old the value of life will be that moment somewhere in the future. 

 

 

[ItsAvi]

@Thanatos13

On 1/15/2018 at 4:14 PM, Thanatos13 said:

One thing that I never understood was why bother doing literally any of it when suicide is a more expedient alternative. 

 

Its like an insight I had one day when I realized I don’t have to or need to live. It’s optional 

I had the same insight. Out of curiosity, I'll try to word this question as best I can, what is your intention right now? Not for this forum but your intention you feel underneath everything. 

 

In other words, what goal do you intuitively feel deep down in this moment? 

 

Edit: I'll also add.. I don't think people really answered your question. It looks like they're mostly just telling you that you lack perspective or that you're overseeing something. Maybe that's true and depending on how you want to interpret it, it can be useful. But looking at what you said, everything aside I do see where you're coming from. Actually it's where I'm coming from to, to a degree. And I'd say you're right. Living is optional. That's all there is to it. Whether you do it or not and why is a whole other can of worms. But everything beyond answering you directly seems gratuitous and an overstep. 

The one part of your statement I'm a bit confused about though is "suicide is a more expident alternative". To what goal do you mean by this? 

Edited January 31, 2018 by ItsAvi

[RichardY]

 

[Forestluv]

For the same reason that tree and squirrel don’t end it

[Thanatos13]

On 1/16/2018 at 1:46 AM, Max_V said:

@Thanatos13 You are not the one who chose to manifest into this body, so you have no authority over when it should end.

I beg to strongly differ on that matter.

[Thanatos13]

On 1/16/2018 at 2:24 PM, SOUL said:

There could be countless "reasons" to carry on but there's no guarantee you will find any of them plausible or logical to you, that doesn't mean there isn't and they aren't, just not for you. They don't even have to be reasoned by logic, they can be emotional, physical or spiritual reasons or any combination of them all. Maybe even no reason at all, just being for the enjoyment and fulfillment of being in well being.

One can "make life worth living" just as much as one can 'make life not worth living', neither of the two are a default absolute that is a 'truth' for everyone and no, it doesn't speak negatively as to the state of life, it's how you interpret that from it and choose to agree with that interpretation so view it that way. Again your personal opinion is not the default absolute ad universal truth, it's your default personal truth you absolutely project onto the universe.....and apparently aren't even aware of it.

Actually death requires something, there are conditions that are required for biological death to occur just as there are conditions for biological life to occur or biological life to persist. Even the perception of one doing "nothing" to keep oneself alive is actually doing something to bring about those conditions that allows for biological life to cease so bring on biological death. Are you starting to see your own conditioned bias yet?

A life well lived is it's own reward, what more are you seeking than just to have a sense of well being in life? You expecting a participation trophy? Maybe a cookie... you want a cookie? That sense of well being, the fulfillment, joy and peace in it is such a precious thing, if you had it at all you wouldn't be questioning it and you surely wouldn't be attempting to distract others from it.

There are people in this world who are genuinely struggling with this dilemma about life, I find your posting here disingenuous using such a tragic situation as a means to a philosophical debate so be "right" online and appease your ego as quite insensitive... but that is just my opinion.

Such statements are made from a position of luxury (especially from the context of modernity). As it stands the majority of the population lives in a form of poverty and illness (just look at India). Not to mention the “worth living” is a bias, as humans have a tendency to remember the good aspects of life and downplay the bad. 

A “life well lived” is highly subjective as to be a meaningless counterpoint to existence as a whole. One merely has to look at nature to see a constant cycle of pain and death, but also birth.

 

Even “making life worth living” speaks to the undesirable nature of existence. One has to actually do something to make life worth it, while it takes nothing to invite pain. Even as we age the quality of life goes down as the body breaks down.

 

Overall the score isn’t in favor of “life being worth living”. Even some animals commit suicide when the pain is too much, or through grief. Making the point about trees is moot since they can’t take their lives.

[Max_V]

@Thanatos13 Can you consciously recall your ego choosing your body to be born and manifest?

[SOUL]

48 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

Such statements are made from a position of luxury (especially from the context of modernity). As it stands the majority of the population lives in a form of poverty and illness (just look at India). Not to mention the “worth living” is a bias, as humans have a tendency to remember the good aspects of life and downplay the bad. 

A “life well lived” is highly subjective as to be a meaningless counterpoint to existence as a whole. One merely has to look at nature to see a constant cycle of pain and death, but also birth.

 

Even “making life worth living” speaks to the undesirable nature of existence. One has to actually do something to make life worth it, while it takes nothing to invite pain. Even as we age the quality of life goes down as the body breaks down.

 

Overall the score isn’t in favor of “life being worth living”. Even some animals commit suicide when the pain is too much, or through grief. Making the point about trees is moot since they can’t take their lives.

You are the one who has posed the conflicted query in this thread and you are offering contradictory evidence thinking it somehow supports your conclusion.... besides, it really does seem as if you still are looking for a cookie.

Trees? Um..... ok