Why not end it?

[David_eh]

I figure killing yourself (unless in constant pain or the like)  is like writing half a book. 

 

I also think it's pretty irresponsible. Everybody has something their uniqueness brings to the table that we can all benefit from. Almost seems selfish coming from someone who has allegedly seen through the illusion of the self. 

 

Your uniqueness is what makes you useful. Not "special" whatever that means but useful. If two heads are better than one when it comes to figuring out stuff then we've hit the mother load. 

 

Pretending to know there is no meaning is highly illogical. For one thing, you don't really know either way and for another, meaning could be something that is made rather than found.

 

If you want to find meaning then help somebody. If you want to find purpose then be useful.

 

It's really that simple.

[SOUL]

@Mighty Mouse You delude yourself into thinking your beliefs are facts, that much is obvious. Not to mention the OP thrashes around in this thread demanding proof and that it doesn't matter showing how much it really does matter to them yet without evidence to support their opinion.

Edited January 16, 2018 by SOUL

[Truth]

55 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

desperately railing against the obvious. That's FEAR talking, which is the force of self-deception. Maya kicking into high gear. Why let the facts get in the way of a good story, right? (hmmmm deja vu).

No, Thanatos just started a giant circle jerk to show everyone how bad their jerking is instead of focusing on his own jerking.  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Truth

[Guest Annetta]

@Mighty Mouse My answer was honest.  Went through suicidal ideation and through the fear of death to come upon what I tried to convey.

[Truth]

12 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Thanatos posed an honest question and got a shitload of dishonest answers.

lol there is none! It's one giant circle jerk! 

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Thanatos posed an honest question and got a shitload of dishonest answers.

 

 

Opinions you agree with = honest

Opinions you don't agree with = dishonest

So transparent...

[Slade]

@Thanatos13 You do it because you want to. Life is meant to be played, not a burden.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Slade

[Monkey-man]

5 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

One thing that I never understood was why bother doing literally any of it when suicide is a more expedient alternative. 

 

Its like an insight I had one day when I realized I don’t have to or need to live. It’s optional 

I'm not gonna joke here, I had several attempts when I felt stuck in life but only two things have stopped me: biological fear and fear of being punished after-life (karma)

fear is what will stop us from doing it. and just think about it, what if karma and reincarnation exist and we actually will be unsettled ghosts or in hell or in bad abusive life-situation in next reincarnation if we actually commit suicide! really contemplate that. that's no woowoo staff to prevent people from harming themselves, that can be real deal of how reality works. reality is causal in the end of the day. so think about future. don't try to run from suffering now to have full bowl of suffering afterwards. instead work to change situation now. think about why ancient spiritual traditions considered suicide as the greatest sin? is it just made-up? or is there some knowledge and understanding of the world behind that?

truth is you can't claim its bullshit, and you can't claim its not. because we don't know. while if its actually true you will end up in worse place if you do it.

 you want to suicide because you want to get rid of wounds of your self-image/ego. so instead of suicide, just 'get rid' of ego. there won't be desire for suicide any longer.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Monkey-man

[David_eh]

What stopped me is curiosity and/or wonder.

 

When it comes right down to it, everything is information being shared.

 

I feel that means something.

[Omni]

Assuming you're already aware of this, being your name thanatos and all that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_drive

Pretty sure many of us on these forums have been there, at least I have. Want a rational answer? The stagnant position you're stuck in is because you haven't grasped the beauty of life, that's simply it. Go out there and put energy into enjoying life, because debating with people why there is no point doesn't further your own expedition at all, it makes it worse.

Don't ball up and ask other people for reasons to live because of the position you're stuck in, cause you might as well just do it at that point as you're not going to find an answer for you, rather only the answer someone else has found for themselves.

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Omni

[Omni]

4 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

You actually can stop what flows. It happens to streams.

 

How do you know that we are part of a greater intelligence? What’s the evidence for that? Unlike a cell (which we have evidence for being part of a larger body) there isn’t anything to suggest we are part of a greater intelligence.

The fact that we experience subjectively (assuming other people exist)  is more a feature of the body rather than a purpose. To grow and expand is what all life does, but that’s not a purpose either.

No, we cannot stop streams from flowing, as it simply diverts it's path. Metaphor or not, you're incorrect.

[Thanatos13]

2 hours ago, David_eh said:

I figure killing yourself (unless in constant pain or the like)  is like writing half a book. 

 

I also think it's pretty irresponsible. Everybody has something their uniqueness brings to the table that we can all benefit from. Almost seems selfish coming from someone who has allegedly seen through the illusion of the self. 

 

Your uniqueness is what makes you useful. Not "special" whatever that means but useful. If two heads are better than one when it comes to figuring out stuff then we've hit the mother load. 

 

Pretending to know there is no meaning is highly illogical. For one thing, you don't really know either way and for another, meaning could be something that is made rather than found.

 

If you want to find meaning then help somebody. If you want to find purpose then be useful.

 

It's really that simple.

It is actually rather selfish to ask someone to stay for other people.

This isn’t some utilitarian world where life is about being useful. Also you show know that making meaning is part of the reason doing so is meaningless. 

Its not like writing half a book because there is no story to tell. The end is when you die, that’s it. Some stories end abruptly. But I think vague spiritual nonsense like “you’re already dead” (not true) is just a way for humans to resolve their death anxiety.

[Thanatos13]

1 hour ago, Monkey-man said:

I'm not gonna joke here, I had several attempts when I felt stuck in life but only two things have stopped me: biological fear and fear of being punished after-life (karma)

fear is what will stop us from doing it. and just think about it, what if karma and reincarnation exist and we actually will be unsettled ghosts or in hell or in bad abusive life-situation in next reincarnation if we actually commit suicide! really contemplate that. that's no woowoo staff to prevent people from harming themselves, that can be real deal of how reality works. reality is causal in the end of the day. so think about future. don't try to run from suffering now to have full bowl of suffering afterwards. instead work to change situation now. think about why ancient spiritual traditions considered suicide as the greatest sin? is it just made-up? or is there some knowledge and understanding of the world behind that?

truth is you can't claim its bullshit, and you can't claim its not. because we don't know. while if its actually true you will end up in worse place if you do it.

 you want to suicide because you want to get rid of wounds of your self-image/ego. so instead of suicide, just 'get rid' of ego. there won't be desire for suicide any longer.

That’s not true. There just isn’t a plausible or logical reason to carry on. One has to “make” life worth living, which speaks negatively as to the state of life. Death requires nothing. There isn’t a reward for a “life well lived”. 

 

Religion just used the punishments for the afterlife to stop people from suicidinng to heaven and the like. Buddhism made it up to get around their noble truth that life is suffering. 

[Omni]

5 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

That’s not true. There just isn’t a plausible or logical reason to carry on. One has to “make” life worth living, which speaks negatively as to the state of life. Death requires nothing. There isn’t a reward for a “life well lived”. 

 

Religion just used the punishments for the afterlife to stop people from suicidinng to heaven and the like. Buddhism made it up to get around their noble truth that life is suffering. 

Like I said; arguing does nothing for your position. You're stuck in a narrow frame of mind and I'm not going to attempt talk you out of it - I'm simply giving you the idea that you're not thinking big enough, you think you are with these shallow concepts, the rest remains up to you. But if you're really not going to think larger here, and if there's no logical reason to carry on, then off with you - that's your own choice

Edited January 16, 2018 by Omni

[Thanatos13]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

Assuming you're already aware of this, being your name thanatos and all that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_drive

Pretty sure many of us on these forums have been there, at least I have. Want a rational answer? The stagnant position you're stuck in is because you haven't grasped the beauty of life, that's simply it. Go out there and put energy into enjoying life, because debating with people why there is no point doesn't further your own expedition at all, it makes it worse.

Don't ball up and ask other people for reasons to live because of the position you're stuck in, cause you might as well just do it at that point as you're not going to find an answer for you, rather only the answer someone else has found for themselves.

 

The “beauty of life” is something that those with the luxury of basic needs taken care of can speak to. Millions starve and die from disease. More are born with body deformations. To call life beautiful seems terribly naive and privileged. Not to mention it’s entirely subjective and doesn’t make it so. 

 

I used to think life life was worth it, then I realized that no sane individual would actually choose to be born, we can only say that because we live in a developed world (the fact that you have internet access sort of negates your point). Buddhists recognize life to be suffering, most religions do. Antinatalism seems to counter your points about “worth it” pretty well. 

[Omni]

25 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

The “beauty of life” is something that those with the luxury of basic needs taken care of can speak to. Millions starve and die from disease. More are born with body deformations. To call life beautiful seems terribly naive and privileged. Not to mention it’s entirely subjective and doesn’t make it so. 

 

I used to think life life was worth it, then I realized that no sane individual would actually choose to be born, we can only say that because we live in a developed world (the fact that you have internet access sort of negates your point). Buddhists recognize life to be suffering, most religions do. Antinatalism seems to counter your points about “worth it” pretty well. 

Your idea of suffering is your own subjective opinion - no? People live lives 100x worse than you or I and some can still find the beauty in life. You're speaking to someone with a body deformation, what about it? You're speaking to someone with a father who killed himself when he(I) was 9, what about it? You're speaking to someone who grew up only knowing poverty and never meeting all of these basic needs. What. About. It? And needless to say I don't think I'm by any means the worst case - but I cover most of your prerequisites, so what next?

Like I said before, you're in a narrow frame. Call me naive, call the notion of the beauty of life naive. But you speak from a point of view that is simply your own, you want to escape it and yet you're afraid to escape it, therefore you are trapped in the stagnant delusion that you cannot escape.

Continue going on about how life isn't worth it, but what i've learned that actions overcome words in any scenario, this one included. You do you, but I'm telling you for certain, you know not in which you speak of.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Omni

[Omni]

Body deformities, yeah?
He still managed to overcome your own cynical beliefs.

This mindset is simply you, not the other way around.

 

 

 

 

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

The “beauty of life” is something that those with the luxury of basic needs taken care of can speak to. Millions starve and die from disease. More are born with body deformations. To call life beautiful seems terribly naive and privileged. Not to mention it’s entirely subjective and doesn’t make it so. 

This "entirely subjective" experience you speak of is the very element you are ignoring and dismissing in asserting the "beauty of life" being absent is actually what transcends any or all of anything and everything to create it for each of us.

Your personal truth and belief paradigm which limits your own potential to be fulfilled and enjoy life in your own mind does not actually limit the potential of others to be fulfilled and enjoy life in real life, your belief limits just your own.. but not others... at all...

 

 

 

[Omni]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

This "entirely subjective" experience you speak of is the very element you are ignoring and dismissing in asserting the "beauty of life" being absent is actually what transcends any or all of anything and everything to create it for each of us.

Your personal truth and belief paradigm which limits your own potential to be fulfilled and enjoy life in your own mind does not actually limit the potential of others to be fulfilled and enjoy life in real life, your belief limits just your own.. but not others... at all...

Well stated. ( no +1 rep  )

[Monkey-man]

55 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

That’s not true. There just isn’t a plausible or logical reason to carry on. One has to “make” life worth living, which speaks negatively as to the state of life. Death requires nothing. There isn’t a reward for a “life well lived”. 

 

Religion just used the punishments for the afterlife to stop people from suicidinng to heaven and the like. Buddhism made it up to get around their noble truth that life is suffering. 

pffff you just want to have strong beliefs to justify your emotions.