Why not end it?

[Thanatos13]

One thing that I never understood was why bother doing literally any of it when suicide is a more expedient alternative. 

 

Its like an insight I had one day when I realized I don’t have to or need to live. It’s optional 

[cirkussmile]

It is completely optional! 

But tell me before you do it. Who is going to kill himself? You?

Who are you?

[OnceMore]

I have been asking that question of "Why not just commit suicide?" a lot the last few weeks. 

The logic here is this: I am suffering a lot and it seems to be getting more worse as my life goes on, and there isn't sufficient amounts of evidence around me that the contrary to suffering is possible. Therefore, if I commit suicide, then that suffering ceases to exist. 

Seems like a good idea and an idea that makes a lot of sense, but I'm not brave enough to do it. 

 

Why do people bother? Fear of whatever happens when you die is perhaps the biggest reason? I don't actually think that, if a person is thinking of committing suicide, then thoughts of their family or whatever even enter their thinking. Perhaps it mainly is just the fear of dying and not knowing what happens after, coupled with perhaps the faint hope of maybe it'll be a little better someday. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by OnceMore

[NoSelfSelf]

Yes kill yourself but not the body thats not you mind is creating your suicidal thoughts its sucks but just observe it and see that this thoughts are in front of you and you observe them then see who is observing it no effort its already here...

[Thanatos13]

25 minutes ago, cirkussmile said:

It is completely optional! 

But tell me before you do it. Who is going to kill himself? You?

Who are you?

I hope you realize the the absence of the self (which much of neuroscience knows due to recent data) doesn’t negate the validity of ending ones life. 

[Thanatos13]

13 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Yes kill yourself but not the body thats not you mind is creating your suicidal thoughts its sucks but just observe it and see that this thoughts are in front of you and you observe them then see who is observing it no effort its already here...

Sorry but that isn’t a correct evaluation. The body and the mind (which is all there is) do so, especially in the face of the logic where one doesn’t  HAVE to do anything really. We don’t need a purpose, we don’t need to live, the more you ponder it the more death seems logical. 

 

Awareness of that reality is hard to ignore. But I doubt others grapple with such concepts. Everyone seems to believe that life is “worth it”. I believe Thomas Ligotti already address the “no self” objection to suicide, stating that it only reinforces the case for it. 

[star ark]

2 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

Sorry but that isn’t a correct evaluation. The body and the mind (which is all there is) do so, especially in the face of the logic where one doesn’t  HAVE to do anything really. We don’t need a purpose, we don’t need to live, the more you ponder it the more death seems logical. 

 

Awareness of that reality is hard to ignore. But I doubt others grapple with such concepts. Everyone seems to believe that life is “worth it”. I believe Thomas Ligotti already address the “no self” objection to suicide, stating that it only reinforces the case for it. 

You have no correct evaluation, you have an evaluation. At some point in your life you thought you were right but you were wrong. You don't want to be wrong about the one thing you cannot take back.

You sound depressed and that depression seems to be making you consider the validity of killing yourself. It is that simple

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Thanatos13  You are in clear self deception thinking you know what reality is...

[Thanatos13]

1 minute ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Thanatos13  You are in clear self deception thinking you know what reality is...

I can easily say the same things about you. So many statements about what reality IS, but they are all ultimately groundless. It also seems typical for the “spiritual” to try to pass vagueness as wisdom. I think you are far too certain in what you believe. 

 

As to the above, part of it is depression. Yet depression is rooted in some truth. Things don’t need to live, yet they do. Wiping out all life would end future suffering. Antinatalism seems to suggest that stopping reproduction would prevent future suffering. 

 

Id like to think nihilism is the truth that has some backing by Buddhism. The emptiness of existence. How we cry for meaning into the void only to have nothing return the reply. That nothing we do matters or lasts. We will be forgotten. Our legacy lasting only as long as humanity does. 

[SOUL]

The point of this life for me is to live a fulfilled and joyful life..... ending it makes that more difficult.

So, I'm not sure what "insight" you think you had but it doesn't appear even remotely relevant for my own experience, I may need more insight into the  "insight" you claim to have had.

Edited January 15, 2018 by SOUL

[NoSelfSelf]

@Thanatos13 Well thats true all i can say it is infinite mybe i see it but im not sure if im decieved and i also think that its best not to reproduce to end suffering but to kill yourself is silly because you can fix the suffering

[Thanatos13]

6 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Thanatos13 Well thats true all i can say it is infinite mybe i see it but im not sure if im decieved and i also think that its best not to reproduce to end suffering but to kill yourself is silly because you can fix the suffering

But killing yourself does fix it by ending it.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Thanatos13
Mispelling

[Adam M]

because you are a taking the easy way out like a selfish little pussy

if you commit suicide while the ego is still intact, the ego wins, deception wins, you win

why not kill yourself by becoming enlightened? 

then you can enjoy the rest of life and help others

 

you should go on living to help others

[Thanatos13]

7 minutes ago, SOUL said:

The point of this life for me is to live a fulfilled and joyful life..... ending it makes that more difficult.

So, I'm not sure what "insight" you think you had but it doesn't appear even remotely relevant for my own experience, I may need more insight into the  "insight" you claim to have had.

That doesn’t make much sense considering that you don’t have to or need to do any of that. That isn’t the point,  because there is no point. There isn’t a difference in dying sooner than you will, you can’t take anything with you and you won’t remember anything that happened.

 

Having a fulfilling life (if there is such thing as fulfillment) only really makes sense if you are obligated to stay alive.

[Guest Annetta]

Letting go of the ego feels really good and like anything it takes practice.  You have the option to kill yourself for sure and there isn't really any meaning to anything.

If you have the time, could you try something for me, I would like to see if it might help with your depression.

 

Ok, here goes:

Put aside all thoughts of depression and suicide for this exercise.  Also, put aside thoughts of the past and future.  Now be completely in the moment.  Breath deeply and feel the air enter and exit your nostrils.  Focus on the feeling in your spine, it will kind of have a tickling sensation to it.  Now as you are doing this, go deeper and deeper into that feeling.  Now at this point, breath in deeply and move the feeling of calm and ease into your chest/heart area.  Feel the spine, your breathing, your chest.  It should feel pretty good.  

Now listen to this song, focus on the instruments, the richness of the sound.  Then, still in this state, go to the fridge and get something fresh and light.  Chew it slowly and really taste the flavours, feel the texture.

Don't worry about 'why am I doing this' or anything like that.  All this is just a test run.

This is what life is about, God lives through your experience.  If you practice this with other things throughout the day, life will become more enjoyable and depression will loosen it's hold.  Insights about life are clearer in this state as well.

[Thanatos13]

10 minutes ago, Adam M said:

because you are a taking the easy way out like a selfish little pussy

if you commit suicide while the ego is still intact, the ego wins, deception wins, you win

why not kill yourself by becoming enlightened? 

then you can enjoy the rest of life and help others

 

you should go on living to help others

1. Life is not a contest. Selfish or selfless are both viable options. There aren’t any rules to abide.

2. Enlightenment isn’t killing yourself. It’s a bit more complex than that.

3. “Deception” is a subjective judgment, not objective. The minute I read Leo saying “objectively good” I questioned his reasoning. Every philosopher knows there is no such thing as objective good.

 

Why should I help others? Wasn’t removing should statements on of the videos?

[pluto]

You are here for a reason, for a greater purpose. You may not know what it is yet but that's the whole mystery of life.

Suicide will most probably leave you in the same loop lifetimes over lifetimes until you learn your lesson and free yourself from the loop.

[Thanatos13]

9 minutes ago, Annetta said:

Letting go of the ego feels really good and like anything it takes practice.  You have the option to kill yourself for sure and there isn't really any meaning to anything.

If you have the time, could you try something for me, I would like to see if it might help with your depression.

 

Ok, here goes:

Put aside all thoughts of depression and suicide for this exercise.  Also, put aside thoughts of the past and future.  Now be completely in the moment.  Breath deeply and feel the air enter and exit your nostrils.  Focus on the feeling in your spine, it will kind of have a tickling sensation to it.  Now as you are doing this, go deeper and deeper into that feeling.  Now at this point, breath in deeply and move the feeling of calm and ease into your chest/heart area.  Feel the spine, your breathing, your chest.  It should feel pretty good.  

Now listen to this song, focus on the instruments, the richness of the sound.  Then, still in this state, go to the fridge and get something fresh and light.  Chew it slowly and really taste the flavours, feel the texture.

Don't worry about 'why am I doing this' or anything like that.  All this is just a test run.

This is what life is about, God lives through your experience.  If you practice this with other things throughout the day, life will become more enjoyable and depression will loosen it's hold.  Insights about life are clearer in this state as well.

Again, none of this addresses my statement. 

 

Life isnt “about anything”, it simply is. Anything assigned to it is human bias or “ego” in your speak. How can I trust insights into life in a certain state? What makes that state more valid than others? How do I know such a state isn’t deception? 

 

For people who criticize everything else you know you seem to leave certain things untouched. 

 

I dont even think the suicide is about depression anymore, it’s more like logic. I’m not bound by any contract to live, it’s optional. I won’t remember anything I did, so why bother doing it? Whatever I decide in life I will forget when I die. Doesn’t seem to be much reason to live to be honest. Seems easier to die, not having to deal with existing anymore. 

[SOUL]

6 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

That doesn’t make much sense considering that you don’t have to or need to do any of that. That isn’t the point,  because there is no point. There isn’t a difference in dying sooner than you will, you can’t take anything with you and you won’t remember anything that happened.

 

Having a fulfilling life (if there is such thing as fulfillment) only really makes sense if you are obligated to stay alive.

So now you are going to tell me what I don't have to or need to do? Well, my friend, what you say about it and your "insight" is no truth in my life in the least, I can view my own experience any way I see fit.... that is the point!

You saying there is no point, no need or anything you want about it isn't any absolute truth or more right or accurate or anything other than your view of your life.... not mine about my life. You questioning my choice for my own life is merely the fruit of your own misery and suffering but I don't have to endure it, that's on you.

I choose to live a fulfilled and joyful life while I am alive in any way I see fit for my own experience, you can do whatever you see fit for your own life but your "insight" is useless to me. Your nihilistic dystopia is of your own creating, it doesn't belong to anyone but you.

 

 

[Thanatos13]

4 minutes ago, pluto said:

You are here for a reason, for a greater purpose. You may not know what it is yet but that's the whole mystery of life.

Suicide will most probably leave you in the same loop lifetimes over lifetimes until you learn your lesson and free yourself from the loop.

I’m going to have to stop you there.

The “purpose” line is one I have heard many times in the past with no evidence to back up. It seems more like an illusion we wrap ourselves in to feel better. Based on the prevailing evidence it doesn’t appear that humans or anything living has a purpose, it merely lives. The cycle of pain and birth exists so long as life does. 

 

If if I grant there is a purpose, which means there must be some intelligence behind it, I would not be interested. For what kind of sadist would allow life to exist for many years in a cycle of eating and birthing. From an objective standpoint, one could argue that life itself was designed by something that enjoys pain.