What Leo meant by self-deception?

[MisterMan]

4 hours ago, Thanatos13 said:

Existence and non existence aren’t the same thing. Nothing to say about that. You can’t assign a value to non existence because it does not exist. It’s not a paradox but a simple resolution. We cannot fathom non existence so the point is moot.

We cannot know what an objective viewpoint is, for it is simply colored by our beliefs of what it is not. 

What you said doesn’t prove existence and non existence to be the same. Something either exists or it doesn’t, it cannot be both and they are not the same. 

 

We we like to believe all things are equal in objectivity, but that’s merely human projection as to what that is. If I were to guess I would say that all things are not equal from an objective sense. Why do humans assign fairness to objectivity. But hierarchies do exist, you see it in nature and in humans. Choosing to gloss over them doesn’t make it any less so. Also humans don’t derive meaning from the meaningless (something existentialism has already covered, it’s hardly what I would called head exploding). It’s rather we give meaning to things. So it’s wrong to call something meaningless for as long as someone exists to give it meaning then it has it. 

It could be argued that without humans to give meaning it would not exist, but there isn’t a way to test that theory.

The very fact that you are alive and have a desire to survive, Leo made a topic about this. A banana has a different meaning to us than to a dolphin. The same as if a city was to be hit by a meteorite, depending on which city you live in your would derive a different meaning from the impact, even though the meteorites have not changed, they have just are hitting a different place and not wiping you out. You cannot escape meaning as a person. So if you look through he perspective of a person, or subjectively hierarchy of values exist, wether you like it or not. That is how we communicating right now. These very same things through the objective lens hierarchical values don't exist. They are both one in the same, or is it one and the same? I'm not sure, but they are the same thing.

I don't see what you mean when you say humans assign meanings to things though, if we exist and existence is emptiness and you say value comes from existence then??It's kinda still leading to the same thing that we derive meaning from that which has no meaning, which is...a meaning!

And if you look at it from the objective viewpoint, where all values are equal (closest thing i can describe to nothingness and it's not wrong is it? I mean the values don't exist but the data in which we interpret things do), no hierachies of value ie no meaning, you derive a meaning of meaninglessness from that which has no meaning.

It still very much seems like a paradox to me.

But fair, i do see what you mean about fairness and objectivity and a leap that i may be taking (i'm still not sure).  It's all a lot to take in and i'm just trying to make sense of it.  Appreciate you testing it out.

Edited January 19, 2018 by MisterMan

[Nahm]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:37 PM, Thanatos13 said:

But how do you know what is true or false? To have such claims would be to contradict the Pyrrhonism video. How do you know that the mind is deceiving you? How do you know the truth is the truth? What if the mind isn’t deceiving you? What if it tells the truth? 

 

So many assumptions being made as to the truth of things.

You know from investigating the suffering! The only way to continue suffering, is to ignore this, which is to assume you already know this, but in truth, don’t. 

If you ignore it, persevere it, then you have learned nothing. If you sit with it, face it, you can begin to see the source is you, and your perspective, and the choices you have been making. Through facing one’s of fear, we liberate ourselves.