vagueness is self deception

[star ark]

I don't have a clue what half of you are on about. It's all so positive yet vague.

The south park episode with the underpants stealing gnomes explains it best. Steal underpants,   ?    , profit 

Every time someone here gives me a pep talk I have no idea what they are saying. Be it, be now, be free, you are now (which now? calm now, meditation now, dmt world now, which now?), you have no brain, we are 2 dimensional beings and we are certain of it, really? certain of things like that? that requires so much vagueness to believe. When two people here are talking about the regular topics pertaining to self actualization often they seem to be so vague both people have a completely different idea in their mind of what they are discussing. 

If your successes in self inquiry are vague you should check them again. 

 

[Truth]

42 minutes ago, star ark said:

you have no brain, we are 2 dimensional beings and we are certain of it.

Lol who said that? 

[Nahm]

@star ark It all serves you in the honing of your distinctions resulting in of course youlessness. 

[Faceless]

Lol Yeah that’s the problem with words and meanings. Have to be clear on what we are using them for. 

[Jamie Universe]

2 hours ago, Truth said:

Lol who said that? 

Leo in his "the brain doesn't exist video" idk about the being 2 dimensional and whatever.

And @star ark I agree also, its pretty vague, also Leo agrees its vague, I get the general idea of his video, but I pretty much take notes on every topic he talks about. Sometimes my notes are redundant. it might help you if you pause after he said something confusing, or you didn't get, and at least write it down, so you can go and figure it out later, or ask questions about on the forum.

3 hours ago, star ark said:

Every time someone here gives me a pep talk I have no idea what they are saying. Be it, be now, be free, you are now (which now? calm now, meditation now, dmt world now, which now?), you have no brain, we are 2 dimensional beings and we are certain of it, really? certain of things like that? that requires so much vagueness to believe. 

 

Same, Leo said at one point that a bunch of the spiritual bull crap/enlightenment quotes are meant to sound like shit because you can't really explain enlightenment.

Though (I think at least) that the social problem on this forum between the spiritual junkies and the newer or not 'spiritual people' is that all the spiritual people talk like "all is one, and nothing, be in the now, the now which is greater than anything" and all the newbies are like WTF? Just ask for a non-spiritual response if it doesn't make any sense. 

[Truth]

49 minutes ago, Jamie Universe said:

Leo in his "the brain doesn't exist video"

You tell me when he said that he is certain and we should believe him. 

he explicitly talks about how the IDEA of "your brain" keeps you stuck in the first minutes of the video.

The problem here is people believe shit when they should be finding out for themselves what these things are pointing at. Instead they take everything on faith or "believe" and are surprised to see contradictions. people don't have the truth. people just have an idea that doesn't fit into their paradigm, or their web of beliefs and this leaves them confused and mind fucked. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Truth

[Faceless]

Most People don’t want  to investigate. They think an explanation will bring about insight. Insight being not of thought can only be communicated through thought. So for example if I make a statement that points to insight this insight is communicated through thought and not the insight itself. It is up to the other person to investigate what is said so that they can come to there own insight. I only give little pieces that are meant to invoke interest. One reason I do this is the majority of people are not ready to even listen. So I will put somthing out and wait for a response to see how interested and sincere they are. If I see they are very passionate to find out I will put more effort out in the communication. 

I feel it’s very important that one is able to listen attentively but also that one is willing to do the majorty of investigation themselves, as far as personal inquiry. And this is the most extraordinary thing to see for oneself anyway. But it’s also very important to investigate with another. This sharing implies the communication of  that which is totally sacred. 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Faceless

[Thanatos13]

I think spirituality has to be vague for its own survival, it needs to propitiate the belief that there are different levels of knowing.

With science calling it out on many of its previously unquestioned principles, they retreat to the veil of ambiguity. That’s how you end up with videos like “why the brain doesn’t exist” (even though it does). 

 

To to be honest it’s a little odd to hear such claims from a self proclaimed pyrrhonist. 

[wavydude]

I get what you're saying. Big part of this fourm are non-enlightened people explaining what enlightenement is and how to reach it. Seems kind of ridiculus.

 

But everone has he's own perspective and every perspective can be useful and teach you a lesson. 

 

[Thanatos13]

12 minutes ago, wavydude said:

I get what you're saying. Big part of this fourm are non-enlightened people explaining what enlightenement is and how to reach it. Seems kind of ridiculus.

 

But everone has he's own perspective and every perspective can be useful and teach you a lesson. 

 

I doubt enlightenment even exists. Even if it did, how would you know if you reached it? How can one be sure what it is? 

[star ark]

Nice responses guys!

I would now suggest uncertainty is the same thing as vagueness only viewed from a different angle. Uncertainty is clearly a more open and aware position to hold but it may not be the position a leader must hold. A leader must be boldly uncertain and unite the others with the ideal of uncertainty. So uncertainty must be as bold as vagueness, and what is more bold than someone claiming to know the truth in vagueness? 

"We must boldy go to where no man has gone before". We can unite in potential discovery, we cannot unite in vague meanings that are all understood on a different level. 

[star ark]

25 minutes ago, Thanatos13 said:

I doubt enlightenment even exists. Even if it did, how would you know if you reached it? How can one be sure what it is? 

It exists if a master exists. If the greatest guitarist of all time truly is and always will be Jimi Hendrix then enlightenment does exist. But it only exists if you are vague.

[star ark]

@Source_Mystic that was a lovely and detailed response. Thanks

[SOUL]

@star ark This is why our underpants may appear to be missing and some can perpetually be searching for them.. The more specific and complicated the teaching the less likely it will apply to each of us because the lesson for every individual is as infinitely divergent as the unfulfilled potential of perception itself.

-------------------------------------

8 hours ago, Source_Mystic said:

Belief is the bane of enlightenment work

Why do you believe this and make it so?

8 hours ago, Source_Mystic said:

Awareness is the key to the process of enlightenment , not ideas , not theory's , not rules and not a consensus among a group. Awareness alone.

This is belief.... all of it.

Belief is a tool...

...for enlightening or endarkening...

...for awakening or enslumbering...

...for liberation or enslavement...

...for creation or destruction...

...or both....and or neither...

...infinitely...and absolutely.

So be it

Edited January 16, 2018 by SOUL

[Source_Mystic]

I use belife everyday @SOUL  just not for the process of enlightenment.  Good luck on your path. 

Your welcome @star ark since I was answering the question for you anyway. 

 

  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Source_Mystic

[SOUL]

23 minutes ago, Source_Mystic said:

I use belife everyday @SOUL  just not for the process of enlightenment.  Good luck on your path.  

You so be live & so be it.

[ErikMeskanen]

On 1/15/2018 at 5:53 PM, Faceless said:

Most People don’t want  to investigate. They think an explanation will bring about insight. Insight being not of thought can only be communicated through thought. So for example if I make a statement that points to insight this insight is communicated through thought and not the insight itself. It is up to the other person to investigate what is said so that they can come to there own insight. I only give little pieces that are meant to invoke interest. One reason I do this is the majority of people are not ready to even listen. So I will put somthing out and wait for a response to see how interested and sincere they are. If I see they are very passionate to find out I will put more effort out in the communication. 

I feel it’s very important that one is able to listen attentively but also that one is willing to do the majorty of investigation themselves, as far as personal inquiry. And this is the most extraordinary thing to see for oneself anyway. But it’s also very important to investigate with another. This sharing implies the communication of  that which is totally sacred. 

 

I'm certainly falling into this trap of believing everything Leo says in blind faith and not taking enough effort to venture out to my path of discovery.