You cant make an argument on reality

[Joseph Maynor]

13 minutes ago, Faceless said:

Argumentation in of itself is one of the products of the neurotic, illusory, and deceptive nature of reality. If the totality of reality isn’t grasped then argumentation about one opinion vs another is inevitable. 

It seems that the meaning of reality might not be agreed upon mutually amongst one another. 

What is reality? I will make it a topic.

Reality is not deceptive.  If you just watch reality there is nothing deceptive. It is only beliefs that deceive.  It is thought-stories that deceive.  I’m not talking about any concept of reality here either, I’m talking about what is sensed in the present moment.  Even the notion of deception is a thought-story.  Existential Truth is not deceptive.  That’s why you wanna be watching that in the present moment.  What’s deceptive is our clinging tightly to beliefs.  Our ideas get in the way of our plain view of reality. It’s kinda sad huh?  Yeah.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[DocHoliday]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Reality is not deceptive.  If you just watch reality there is nothing deceptive. It is only beliefs that deceive.

@Joseph Maynor  So if deception is based upon belief, when I'm free of any beliefs, then does that make me free of deception? I'd certainly say so, because in order to even have a deception in the first place, it requires a belief (that I identify with) that contrasts against its negating counterpart, to which I obviously don't pay much attention or give merit to, thus deception is created. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by DocHoliday

[Faceless]

@Joseph Maynor

yeah.. I see anything that thought creates as being reality. Belief, illusion, the me and so on are part of that field of reality. Reality is observation and projection through the whole field of “thought” conciousness. Truth is of itself. Not of thought. 

Make sense? 

[Nahm]

“Reality” (Illusion/Maya) is so completely and wholly deceptive that it gets referred to as reality, as real, as ‘without deception’. Only absolute could be absolutely deceiving. We are maya, you and I are the One. 

The question imo is, is the undefinable One self conscious / self aware?

And as no thing isn’t it, we are all it, so can we experience our true self, the One? 

 

[Heart of Space]

46 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

What if it's all deception and there is nothing other than deception?

In that sense you can never be free of deception, you can only know it for what it is.

 

If you know deception for what it is you aren't being deceived.  Deception comes from ignorance and if you are ignorant you are not fully enlightened.  

[Heart of Space]

5 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

The one being deceived is part of the deception and can never be enlightened.

The absolute is never deceived to begin with, it always knows it exactly for what it is.

The idea of enlightenment itself is an expression of ignorance. The whole "path" or "search" is part of the deception. It doesn't end by coming out of it but by exhausting it. All you ever find is deception. You don't find truth, you find out it was never lost.

That's going full circle.

I agree.

[DocHoliday]

8 hours ago, Mighty Mouse said:

What if it's all deception and there is nothing other than deception?

In that sense you can never be free of deception, you can only know it for what it is.

 

@Mighty Mouse That‘s another way to put it.? I think in our discussions on these various topics, most of the time we are actually saying the same things, they’re just wrapped up differently and packaged into other, varying arrangements of words. 

The ones who know It, know it, so in the end it doesn’t exactly matter how we try to express it through words and language. (Even though it is still important in some way, please don’t get me wrong here:P)

Edited January 15, 2018 by DocHoliday