Raising your consciousness

[egoless]

@Leo Gura but when you are being so dismissive of the logic isn’t there a trap of duality there? You denounce it as something bad and evil. Isn’t logic handy when dealing with content-bodymind/matter rather than substance-consciousness?

tbh I found out that connecting and synergizing logic with intuition is the most beneficial 

Edited January 14, 2018 by egoless

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Faceless said:

@Leo Gura

Maybe, I’m sure it’s quite pleasurable. 

Thankyou friend 

No, it's not about pleasure. It can be quite horrifying. That's how you know it's real. If it was just all pleasure, you couldn't rely on it.

I never look forward to doing psychedelics. It's something I have to force myself to do. It's like entering a cage with an untamed lion. You'd be a fool to do it too eagerly.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Leo Gura but when you are being so dismissive of the logic isn’t there a trap of duality there? You denounce it as something bad and evil. Isn’t logic handy when dealing with content-bodymind/matter rather than substance-consciousness?

Everything I denounce, I also don't denounce.

The devil is none other than God.

Yes, the devil is handy for staying alive.

[egoless]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Everything I denounce, I also don't denounce.

The devil is none other than God.

Yes, the devil is handy for staying alive.

I see. Now it sounds more “logical” 

but as you and me know these are just words right?  

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, blazed said:

Yeah, also different people have different experiences under the influence of these substances, it seems non-spiritual people get totally different experience and conclusions from this, so I'm wonder if it's also just a manfestation of what you're expecting, e.g. taking it with a spiritual mindset = spiritual insights, etc.

No, there's actually remarkable and uncanny similarity between all trip reports. Almost everyone experiences nonduality at high doses. The question is, can they stomach it?

When clueless people take psychedelics, they don't understand what they're shown because it clashes with the materialist paradigm so much, and they are so clueless they don't even understand that materialism is a paradigm.

You cannot take a random person off the street and blast his mind with full nonduality. It's way too much for him to handle. He's gonna freak out and not understand a damn thing.

But if you take a person who's been struggling, chasing nonduality for 3 years, going to meditation retreats, doing self-inquiry, etc. and you give him a blast of psychedelic, he will love you for it. It will be the greatest gift to him. Because he's ready to receive the Truth. He has a context for it. His mind is primed.

Unfortunately once a person has been chasing enlightenment for 3 years, he's been programmed with so much dogma from gurus, that he is reluctant to take a psychedelic, because the gurus told you it's somehow impure or sinful.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, blazed said:

When i was younger my friends hot boxed a room with weed and I got so intoxicated that I thought i was in the matrix, I lost almost all sense of self, and now I think about it I was being blown into oblivion and my mind (ego) couldn't grasp anything but it was desperately trying to grasp back into reality. I spent the next hour vomitting in the toilet.

That shit was horrifying I never wanted to do weed ever again, I sold all my stash to my friends. I was the only one to have this experience out of all them. They were just laughing their heads off.

Yes, that's precisely how it works for an ego/mind which isn't ready.

Truth is an acquired taste. Much like alcohol or bittersweet chocolate. Kids don't like those.

Psychedelics are extremely threatening to anyone who isn't ready to have their entire reality thrown into the shredder.

And weed is just the tip of the iceberg. A true psychedelic would have scared the shit out of you.

But I love 'em! They are just right for my kind of mind. On psychedelics, my mind becomes an infinite supercomputer, able to crunch the entire universe and scan the mind of God. It's too amazing to put into words.

[Leo Gura]

@blazed Your body also hates Truth

The weed made you go deep precisely because you came into it with a totally open mind, free of preconceptions. That's the ideal state to be in: Beginner's Mind!

Unfortunately you balked at Nothingness. God is a frightening thing to behold, especially to a 12 year old

[Forestluv]

59 minutes ago, Faceless said:

 

Maybe, I’m sure it’s quite pleasurable. 

????

For me, the process of ego death on psychedelics is filled with extreme anxiety and often terror and panic. I’ve had urges to kill myself as that was my onlly option to regain control and make it stop.

pleaurable? No. I’d much rather be getting a BJ from my gf.

[Faceless]

@Shiva

yeah I understand there’s degrees of attention 

Edited January 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Shiva

Total attention implies that the i is not. 

If this doesn’t make sense investigate.??

Edited January 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@Shiva @Leo Gura@Serotoninluv

I’ve said it before I don’t recommend the usage of psychedelics but I’m not a hater to who does want to.

 We have to acknowledge that the desire to kill our ego with the assistance of an outside agency such as psychedelics, invites the mechanical movement of pleasure. That pleasure invites further desire to fulfill and recapture the gratification from the original experience.  And even if there is an “ego death” after one trip, wouldn’t this imply that one wouldn’t have to use psychedelics again?  If there is an ego death then why are we still trying to kill “it”? It’s only obvious that chasing an old experience implies that this “ego death” has been mistaken for an insight and experience of the limitless, that which is beyond thought or the self, and that which is still within the limited field of thought. If there is an ego attempting to recapture or fulfill a pleasure through ambition, gratification, or desire, wouldn’t this imply that the self had not died. 

 

You see where I’m getting at? If there is still a movement of a mechanical pattern taking place then this “death” never actually took place. Because thought is mechanical and that which is mechanical is always limited. If this pattern continues then this is an indication that the self “thought” is still giving continuity to the significance of that experience as being beyond that which is thought and beyond the ego. 

 

Hints..this is why I commented “I’m sure it’s very pleasurable” lol because pleasure is mechanical in nature, and that which is mechanical is limited, and bound by thought. If one is still chasing experiences then this also shows that the center has not ceased. Until this center ceases beauty, creativity, compassion, relationship, and love is not. 

 

A center-less state is a state where the experiencer is not. And only this state is that which is beyond the field of thought. And If there is no experiencer than there’s no need to chase an experience right? 

 

If one wants to chase experiences be my guest, but please investigate more into this before you promote the use of psychedelics to others. The ultimate state of mind is the state where the center is not. This state is not dependent on outside agencies or limited to once every now and then. This state is a daily ongoing movement of beauty. To be headless is freedom from the self.

 

I hope one sees the significance of what is said here and avoids this obvious trap altogether. If a simple dude like me can do it anyone can.

 

It’s all about freedom from experience and not about fulfilling a desire for an experience friends

Don’t take my word for it. Please consider what is said and investigate objectively before replying. Otherwise what’s the use in communication. I only want to share this beauty of living with another??

 

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Faceless

[AleksM]

@NoSelfSelf

@Jamie Universe

 

 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@AleksM Thanks for sharing

[Forestluv]

On 1/13/2018 at 5:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

Pick any topic of human endeavor, and you can become much more conscious of it. For example: politics, mathematics, science, language, nutrition, ecology, business, finances, animals, government, design, architecture, agriculture, history, culture, religion, dating, family, education, etc, etc.

You could design and build your own conscious house, for example. Probably a good idea for a conscious person to live in a conscious dwelling.

You could even design your own conscious city! I once had a coaching client who's dream was to build an underwater city.

There is no end to it. It's infinite!

When it comes to consciousness of your own mind, there will still be plenty to become conscious of there. Emotions are so tricky, it will take you 40 years of practice to become fully conscious of them.

And then there is the realm of spiritual powers like astral projection and paranormal stuff, which is a very deep rabbit hole.

Sadhguru built and consecrated his own temple! It nearly killed him.

So there is much to do!

I have some beliefs I'm questioning about what an evolved person "should" look like. I imagine enlightened/evolved people to be highly invested in reducing the suffering of others. Such as buddhist monks and personal development speakers/authors. Having retreats for others. . . And in Spiral Dynamics the description of second tier yellow involves an integrated systems perspective focused on developing solutions to societal problems.  

My gf is a social worker serving refugees, the homeless and those with HIV. Sometimes she questions the output of all my spiritual work. I have a lot of solitary time and often in my head, while she is out in the trenches with those in need. Last night she asked if I have any opinions, if I ever take a stand, if I have passions to help others, if I have a conviction I'm willing to fight for. . . To be honest, not really. I've become less interested in my opinions and more interested in learning about various perspectives. How perspectives are shaped, how perspectives influence each other. It seems many people with strong opinions and passions for a cause have a narrow perspective  that they are locked into. 

Since incorporating psychedelics into my journey 1.5 yrs ago, I've become fascinated with learning Spanish, I've traveled through central and south america for weeks or months at a time. Fascinated by new cultural perspectives. I've become attracted to nondual speakers and a grand shared consciousness expressed through my object. As if I am one cell within a larger organism. 

I recently watched a Chris Cowan video in which he says a new form of enlightened expression is evolving: creativity and emergence. That attracted me. I'm currently intrigued by creating new college courses outside of the academic "norm box". I'm intrigued by what lies outside my current consciousness level and what may emerge. Yet, part of me has resistance if it's not involved in helping others and reducing suffering.

[Nahm]

I did years of meditation and practices and did not take psychedelics. I was ignorant and lumped them in a ‘drug’ category. My frame of reference were idiots from my high school days who used drugs to escape (my own ignorance). Eventually, again, after years of practices, I tried psylicybin. To date I have probably taken roughly 20 trips, max was 8g tea. I have a friend or two that are wholly locked into the materialist paradigm, but wanted to try it. I sat and watched them trip, watched the truth vs their ego. They freaked the fuck out. They hated it.  Talking about losing yourself, ego death, oneness, absolute, is talking just like talking about being on mars. Important distinction to make imo, wether we are talking about our idea of something, or wether we are talking about our own experience. The idea, could be laced with fear, and so woven into our personality, that we don’t have any clue. The experience though, it really doesn’t matter what anyone says or thinks, the psychedelic is going to rule. 

In 20 trips, I never had a “bad” one. Each was ‘closer to the truth’ than the last. I attribute that to being in the void routinely in meditation and being perfectly comfortable in it. The void, on it’s own, I found delightful. But, in hindsight, the void was the floor, not the ceiling. Thanks to psychedelics. 

[Forestluv]

I've asked myself whether I'm chasing a psychedelic experience several times. Some psychedelic spaces include anxiety and fear. I definitely don't want to chase those. Yet there are also some spaces I'd like to return to, yet that isn't my experience with psychedelics. I don't know where the trip will lead. The uncertainty is a source of the anxiety. 

For me, it's more like visiting a higher consciousness level - which can be very uncomfortable. Along the lines of spiral dynamics consciousness levels. Just like how I don't remain in one conscious level sober, I don't remain in a higher psychedelic consciousness level. It's not like a trip shows me THE truth and that I found out what I needed to know and it's time to move on. . . Rather, psychedelic conscious levels are a part of my ongoing evolution. Rather than being restricted to three sober conscious levels, I have four or five.  I've been meditating for about 26 yrs and have only used psychedelics for 1.5yrs. And my sober conscious levels are evolving faster when I utilize a variety of spiritual methods (including psychedelics). I would imagine my growth would be stunted if I ONLY used psychedelics. I met travelers in Peru that had no real job and psychedelics were a lifestyle. They were constantly doing Ayahuasca and San Pedro. I suppose there is a point of overdoing it.

[Faceless]

@Serotoninluv

I understand friend

 

 Again, when I relate pleasure with psychedelics I simply mean that there would be some kind of end result after using the psychedelic which is then tried to be achieved again and again...

 

The seeking of an experience beyond the experiences of everyday life is a movement to fulfill a desired outcome.  For example, In this sense the outcome may be “enlightenment” an experience of expanded consciousness and so on. So there is a movement to come about a totally new experience. This creates an image to be achieved or attained. 

 

Now if that image is pursued with the a movement such as thought being hope, aspiration, ambition, dream; More

intention, idea, plan, design, aim, and so on there becomes a psychological attachment in attaining that “new experience” 

When an outside agency such as psychedelics is introduced it become a means to that end. Therefore once that chemical is introduced into the brain a certain experience is induced and thought attributes to that experience and implies that “expanded consciousness is captured.” 

 

Now I didn’t mean to say there is pleasure while the chemical is in action working in the brain itself. What I meant was pleasure arises from the original motive of having a greater experience and when a means to an end are implemented “psychedelics”. So in short the pleasure comes about from the outcome after one has had there “insight” and so on. They feel they have captured something immense so there then comes a sort of gratification, sense of achievement towards there goal of enlightenment, and so on. U see the pattern of pleasure arises because there then becomes a pattern that the me “thought” constantly wants to re-experience that original experience or top it with an even better experience. A constant movement of perpetual conflict. ?

 

But one needs to see that any experience whatsoever is always within the limited field of thought. There can only be an experience when thought is in action. That’s the problem with thought, it attributes to itself the quality of not being thought. Thought acts and doesn’t know it is doing so. 

 

So my point is this quite simply friend, if there is an experience at all then that is still an action of thought. It’s only when there is no center “experience” that thought is not in action. 

 

And again I don’t mind what others choose to do. I respect and appreciate everyone equally. 

 

Thanks for your reply buddy??

 

[Forestluv]

@Faceless The same logic would apply to my long distance running. I reach an expanded state of consciousness around mile 20.

[Joseph Maynor]

Enlightenment is very different than any idea of Enlightenment.  

[Nahm]

On 1/13/2018 at 9:34 PM, Mighty Mouse said:

@blazed No doubt people walk away with different conclusions. What you learn from ANY experience, mystical or otherwise, depends entirely on your frame of reference going into it. No surprises there.

 Maybe, just maybe, there is an experience wholly completely literally without any relativity whatsoever, and maybe, just maybe, that is what people mean by words like “ego death”, “absolute”, “Self”. Maybe this is the difference between experiencing the void, and being the void. What if that difference seems to be minute, because of one atom of remaining relativity - and what if, when that atom is surrender, the difference is infinite. Is it possible there remains, still, an ultimate surprise for you? 

Completely unrelated....what was it you didn’t care for in the “Leo becomes god aka absolute infinity” video?