ego is synonymous with duality

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, alyra said:

oh but these are one and the same. 

Yes, but for the sake of the metaphor there was an illumination of distinctions, so are you aware that if you really didn't want to draw any distinctions, why did you use one at all?

[alyra]

12 minutes ago, SOUL said:

if you really didn't want to draw any distinctions, why did you use one at all?

yes indeed. weird huh? 

[SOUL]

8 minutes ago, alyra said:

I killed my precious kitty and I remember her fondly. I smile.

The ego may die...naturally and that is of it's own evolution but one who is just being in acceptance of what is, is not one that wants to commit egocide.

Besides, the point was that even if the ego dies....there is nothing left to remember it or teach it, so those that suggest they do remember or teach it, haven't really experienced it.

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, alyra said:

yes indeed. weird huh? 

Very.

[alyra]

@soul haha I giggled cute word play! 

 

I like the way you have shifted what "I" means. I warn tho, since it is in fact on-topic - i notice people seem to think that all is self means their current state of ego is everything there is. it isn't. transcention is, in a cute way, to extend the ego so that it is more encompassing the kitty doesn't cease to be real because it isn't the ego you are limited by. she sure exists too, and as long as you are trapped in duality, she remains true and not-you.

 

have you ever been the kitty? how about every kitty? only then can you trully say you have been infinite. as long as you only accept that you are part of the infinite, and do not include [the kitty] and [you] and [you being the kitty] and [you remembering being the kitty but no longer being her] and [you not remembering having been the kitty despite having been so or perhaps having yet to been so or really time is just an illusion so both are true and false] and [you before you knew you were the kitty]....... and who knows maybe the kitty can do all these things too so if she can you gotta do those as well! But sure as hell you gotta go be the kitty without ever having been not-her nor having ever again been not-her, just been the kitty and not anything else beyond that.

 

so unless you have done all that, you can never actually truthfully say you have been the kitty. and as such you can never truthfully say you have been the absolute. And so in this way, you are always locked in ego, you will never leave it. you are always locked in duality, and will never leave it. even if you do somehow manage to be the kitty in all those ways and then some, don't stop there, because you gotta then go do that for all the kitties as well, all ants and all humans and all of all individuals, and all atoms and waves and gluons and particles and quantum states, and all concepts too. and especially the ones you never came up with yet, as well as been all of the nothingness to counterbalance all of these, and every false belief as well. And did I mention all of existence (and non-existence and outside-the-box-of-existence-and-non-existence) we can never fathom: AKA all of that what we can fathom can fathom also can never fathom?  Without being all of that, and in all the various dimensions of being that that I mentioned about the cat plus some.... without all that you will only have glimpses of something awe-inspiring, some thing that you claim to be the infinite, the absolute, god - but that is just a belief upon its ending, even if it is true in the moment of it. its ending is its death for you and you return to your brittle ego. and unless you're having that "glimpse" right now you can't say you're in it truthfully - just because you are the absolute and the absolute is you don't mean the same thing as you accomplishing that level of consciousness - only that level of belief!

 

And even if you manage to be "in" that existence of the absolute -"in" as in a conclusive "within" and not the limited within that is duality aka ego.
Even being that conclusive absolute, but taking the action to state you collapse to be limited ego and not unlimited absolute. By having this conversation we prove to be finite dual ego, and by taking the action to not partake in the conversation we in fact do the same regardless! 

this is the nature of duality and nonduality to be perfectly frank. so be careful. You can never "be" the absolute in its wholesomeness of it - you can only be in its image. 

[SOUL]

@alyra We are all the kitty, we are infinite kitties, we are the unified kitty, we are the absolute kitty, we are yet to be kitty..... even if we aren't aware of it, even if we only perceive the every day kitty that we slink around with in this life.

I have expanded awareness so that I can not just perceive each of those kitty states on their own but I can perceive all of them simultaneously. I attune awareness to just being present in the state of kittiness as it is naturally....now. In being at peace with the kitty as it is, finding fulfillment in being kittiness, enjoying being the kitty in whatever kitty is.

We can expand, transcend, transform and all the rest of these methods and exercises all day long, every day for our whole life but without the experience of contentment in just being with each state, with each change in each moment it won't create that experience of peace, joy and fulfillment at the 'end' of some 'path'.

Every manifest of kitty is what it is, it's only us with a yearning for knowledge that will find a reason to label kitty true or false, good or bad, real or an illusion. We are just dancing with kitties and sometimes the kitty purrs, sometimes it scratches and other times  indifferent as we know kitties can be.

Be at peace with kitty how ever it manifests, this peace will open awareness to all the kitties, the one kitty and the kitty that has to be.

Meow!

Edited January 18, 2018 by SOUL

[Forestluv]

Ego is within nonduality, it is not separate.

I suppose its fair to say an egocentric perspective is a dual perspective.

[MisterMan]

I'm still grasping a lot of this stuff, whilst had some insights you forget, each time you gain more and more. I know i do not have a full grasp of this but i would like to try and explain an understanding that i have come to by connecting some dots. To see if this is at all related to what you guys are talking about and if so, how . Or how is it not? As it seems like there is a duality and non duality thing going on in there as well.

Existence and non existence, are the same thing. If you look at it through the subjective lens you see that we are beings that create stories, stories are based on hierarchies of values depending on where you are and want to go, but also at the same time if you operate from an objective viewpoint, the very same thing is of equal value to everything else. Meaning (oh strange loop, getting dizzy) existence and non existence are the same thing.

It's crazy crazy stuff, from the objective viewpoint all values are equal to each other, hierarchies don't exist. To derive meaning from something that has no meaning should make my head explode.

Edited January 18, 2018 by MisterMan

[alyra]

On 1/18/2018 at 7:06 AM, MisterMan said:

It's crazy crazy stuff, from the objective viewpoint all values are equal to each other, hierarchies don't exist. To derive meaning from something that has no meaning should make my head explode.

very well said! I have all my life been noticing how hierarchies are not so meaningful as others push for it, or well at least since college, when I noticed how much difficulty I had at giving assessments such as rating a song or answering a survey with a scale. I have noticed since then about how meaning is subjective, especially in which somethings which are better in some contexts are not as good as alternatives in other contexts. and I have noticed too how things which seem as if they level up, well, those which have passed the level... have been that level at some point in the past. and what is at a lower level now, will become higher level in the future. further, what we choose to level up is our strength.. if we spend our time to become a good artist, we have not spent our time to become a good athlete, for example. and so if someone seems a little rude to me, instead of being resentful of it I wonder what skills/perspective they have gained that I have not! and I use my strength in my gained sensitivity of social dialogue to help keep the interaction a positive one, instead of allowing the tension to defeat it. 

 

er, sorry for the ramlbe there, off topic in a way i guess, notsomuch in another way tho... heh

[alyra]

On 1/17/2018 at 3:19 PM, SOUL said:

@alyra We are all the kitty, we are infinite kitties, we are the unified kitty, we are the absolute kitty, we are yet to be kitty..... even if we aren't aware of it, even if we only perceive the every day kitty that we slink around with in this life.

well said

 

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I have expanded awareness so that I can not just perceive each of those kitty states on their own but I can perceive all of them simultaneously. I attune awareness to just being present in the state of kittiness as it is naturally....now. In being at peace with the kitty as it is, finding fulfillment in being kittiness, enjoying being the kitty in whatever kitty is.

i can not know what your perspective is. but be careful... are you sure you are directly aware of all the kitties, or only aware of the concept and assumptions you have about them? I do respect the latter greatly! but I see people talk of consiousness in ways that raise my eyebrow. there is first the acceptence that we are the absolute, but there is also the inescapable behavior that we are the limited. that which interacts is limited. the absolute is that and that is the absolute... but to interact a self is created, an identity, limit. to be unlimited is not that, and that is not unlimited.... it's a hard topic to discuss, inherently  like I said I only state this to facilitate its consideration in myself and others. it can be said that we are the absolute, but it also can equally be said that we are limited and not at all absolute at all! they are both accurate statements, both true, both imperative. it is nonesense imo to try to remove oneself from the dual, in pursuit of the nondual. the pursuit of the nondual to me, only makes sense under the intention of transcending the dual to be more present or more serene, to embrace the absolute into our being, but necessarily to not discard the limited. 

 

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Meow!

 

meow :3 

 

 

[SOUL]

12 minutes ago, alyra said:

but be careful

This little phrase jumps out at me because it implies something in light of everything else you said. Yes I want to be caring... I am care full, I do care, though I don't get the impression this is the sentiment you were saying it in. It felt like more of a warning, like I should beware of something and yes, I want to be aware, again if that's what you meant ..... although, again it doesn't appear you did mean that sentiment.

There is no doom or devastation if our awareness of the absolute is merely conceptual or limited or veiled in perception, it just is. For my own experience living a fulfilled life, at peace and in joy is the point even if it is an illusion, I just want to enjoy my delusion! I don't need "truth" or "infinite absolute nothingness" or "enlightenment" or whatever attainment of some ultimate abstract to be fulfilled.

Just being present, appreciating the moment, embracing life in it's simplest expression has way more effect of dissolving the suffering in my inner life and increasing the enjoyment of my whole experience. Whether it's limited and conceptual only matters is if those concepts and limitations are bringing me misery, if not, so what? I don't set up the conceptual belief that those conditions of limitation prevent my joy.

Kitty aint go no time fo dat!

Meow!