spirituality, new age bs, and consciousness

[snowleopard]

@Shroomdoctor  Epistemologically speaking, probably the best anyone can come up with is 'true enough under the circumstances' -- the consensus dream included.

[SOUL]

Chasing experience of the present to get understanding so that one can know it as truth is like trying to capture now in a clock.

Edited January 9, 2018 by SOUL

[Ajax]

@Shroomdoctor

Would you say that you fear becoming delusional and out of touch with reality?

If so I would say that you already are.

So how do you separate fact from fiction?

Simple, if it doesn't seem true to you don't accept it. That's it in a nutshell. If you are putting together a large puzzle you want to put the pieces that fit and put aside the ones that don't until you can get to it.

It is also helpful to realize that just about everything has some degree of truth/falseness to it.

It would be helpful for you gain the ability to easily change modes of thinking.... You have probably heard the phrase, "put on your thinking cap."

Well, to understand some of the more esoteric ideas you may have to remove your analytical/logic cap... perhaps replace it with a metaphorical/symbolic/figurative hat.

For example, I am sure that the flow state, the zone and the subconcious and generally accepted concepts in the science community. They represent real phenomena. These abilities have been recognized by humanity since they became sentient. So who is to say that  connecting with higher self,aliens, disembodied spirits,angels,God's, or whatever.....are not manifestations of the subconscious? By the way the subconscious is a very limited umbrella term to describe a very broad range of unknown and mysterious phenomena.

Therefore your ability to make sense of different ideas is...1) dependant of your mental flexibility. 2) your courage level to meet face to face with ideas that that are totally contrary to the world as you see it. 3) your ability to have a total and thorough perspective of the subject as it is without prejudgement or bias. 

 So to elucidate on the major points.

 

1. Always think for yourself and accept what makes sense to you. If you try to force something that doesn't make sense than you will remain ignorant of essential factors that relate to your worldview.

2. Know that an open mind is the seed to understanding. However open acceptance is not as it can lead to ignoranice which can be harmful.

3. Be willing to entirely destroy all your cherished thoughts feeling and opinion. A great deal of consciousness work is unlearning what you already know.

4. Anything that you can comfortably and fully face you can handle. Therefore it would be to your supreme advantage to develop and master this ability.

5. Communicate with the subject effectively. If you are having a conversation with someone and actually want to understand their point of view... You engage in active listening without intersecting your personal thoughts and idea but seek to ask clarifying question to get a more thorough understanding of the subject matter.

I used this method to find some delightful practical applications in some previously unpalatable subects I was wrestling with including... self love, non resistance,acceptance,no judgement, openminedsess and channeling.  

 

I hope this helps

[Guest Annetta]

I just had the weirdest dream.

In my dream I was scrolling on the forum and it was like The Borg had infiltrated the website and the same entity was speaking through different people.

The same mannerisms, the same way of using phrases, the same belief system.  I just kept scrolling and scrolling infinitely and the more I did the stronger they became.  Every so often I'd stop scrolling to find another comment and I'd let out a horrified shriek. 'Aaahhhh!!!'

[Shanmugam]

Looks like most of the alien entities are targetting the people in the West. I will deal with them if they ever decide to come to East. 

[mp22]

8 hours ago, Shroomdoctor said:

Honestly, I find the amount of bs i read in the consciousness section lately a bit concerning. It is really hard to take spirituality seriously if half of the forum is complete new age bs. Maybe that is my ego and scientific paradigm talking, but is it just how I see things at the moment. These are the reasons why people laugh at me when I mention meditation and people want to put me into counseling when mentioning enlightenment. 

I really liked Leos no bullshit spirituality videos. They put these topics in a good light, They make you seriously wonder about these things.  

But "Hey I am channeling an entity, ask me questions?" Like how should I be able to take this seriously?

What I really liked about this forum was the possibility to get input on these kind of things in a practical and down to earth manner. But this is getting less and less possible. That was what separated the consciousness section of this forum from other spirituality sides, and it was what hooked me. 

I admit that there might be things I do not yet understand. Things like chakras might be legit and really help with self actualization. But I get the vibe that quite a lot of people flee into spirituality because it makes it easier to ignore the burning problems in your life. I get that consciousness is a big part of self-actualization. But it isn't everything, is it? 

This isn't supposed to be bashing, I would just like to hear your opinions about these things. I really want to explore spirituality, but I fear getting lost in these new age concepts and falling from one dogma to another. 

How do you handle that? How do you separate the real value from bs?

To me things started to go South around the psychedelics period but there were signs like the "logic is bullshit" video  (I'm paraphrasing here) and, yes, some of the enlightenment videos where things were already presented as the Truth. This place goes as Leo goes, if he reverses course it'll go away real quick.

[mp22]

3 hours ago, Shanmugam said:

Person A: Don't trust that channelling guy, he is fake! 

Person B: Everything is fake, nothing you see is real..

Person A: I know that buddy, but what I am saying is, he is ripping off people by charging $1000 - $2000 for every session. Something is fishy,.

Person B: Even money is unreal! By the way, you are not open minded.. 

Person A: I am open to everything... I know that many things are possible even though we don't understand it.But the meaning of open-mindedness is willing to change your existing beliefs and assumptions and being receptive to new ideas. But it doesn't mean blind faith. You are just craving for some experiences and your temptations are making you justify this by calling in open-mindedness.

Person B: see, this is just your ego getting in the way.. and you are too judgemental too. 

Person A: First, you need to understand what you really want. Don't you see that you are using spiritual lingo to justify your attachments and cravings? If your interest is in exploring such things it is fine, but just recognize what it is...spiritual seeking is not looking up, looking out or looking something that is 500 light years away! It is just looking in..

Person B: See, everything is fine the way it is.. There is nothing to seek, nobody to get enlightened and everything is an illusion...

(person A kicks person B's butt, stamps his face, crushes his nose and hits Person B's head with a stone)

Person B: oh my god! It is painful 

Person A: thats not real buddy.. the pain is just an illusion 

Person B: oh my God! blood 

Person A: the blood is not real either, it is a part of illusion too 

Person B: what have you done, oh my God... 

Person A: what have 'I' done? there is no 'I' remember? And there is no one doing anything here.. there is no doer! And you don't exist.. 

 

Awesome!

I nominate you for post of the year ( even taking into account that time does not exist)

[Leo Gura]

@Shroomdoctor It's a really tough balance to strike.

People come from so many different backgrounds, cultures, and experiences here.

If we crack down on New Ageism too much, people will rant and whine about "censorship!" and totalitarian rule.

If we let freedom and egalitarianism reign, then all opinions are valid and then you get a natural cross-section of all the worlds spiritual ideas, which are immense, wide, and crazy to most Western minds.

So it's a damned-if-we-do,-damned-if-we-don't situation.

Personally I'm not a fan of mixing UFOs with nonduality. But some people are really into that.

It helps to distinguishing this forum from the Actualized.org videos. They are two very different things. This forum is for you guys to share ideas. And in a free marketplace of ideas, you have to expect that some crazy ones will get shared.

We might have to crack down on New Ageism a bit more in the future. I'll be keeping my eye on it. I'm just giving you guys fair warning so you don't scream and holder "censorship!" if we start cracking down. The point would to be keep this place free of BS and distractions.

Maintaining a good community means having editorial standards and specialization. I would rather have this place be more about strict nonduality than people debating about UFOs.

We might have to re-instate the a New Age sub-forum, so that the Meditation/Consciousness sub-forum is more about strict nonduality work.

[snowleopard]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

you have to expect that some crazy ones will get shared.

Yeah, like the belief in matter   

[Shanmugam]

There is one interesting information I want to convey here.. There is very common and interesting stuff which happens in India in almost every village of south India. And when I see the nature of these channellings, I see a striking similarity..

In each village in South India, there are village deities. People in the village believe that these deities are like gatekeepers.

Here is an example:

Often during village temple festivals, some people get into a trance. And then they start to speak, implying that the deity has possessed them. Their voice and face expressions change and they start to foretell the future. They also start demanding things like 'you need to give me this, you need to conduct this festival in such a way' etc.. This is a regular phenomenon and I have seen such things probably hundreds of times and it has happened to a few of my own relatives living in villages... It is called as divine possession. People who seemed to be possessed and people around them are pretty convinced that it is real. 

But such things only happen in villages in South India. If you visit my place during June-July, you can see this happening everywhere. But such things only happen in villages, and only happens to Hindus. But strangely, these village deities have never possessed anybody in the West and the Aliens you are talking about have never possessed people in my country. So, it is very clear that people only experience things which they already know of.

Even though there is intentional fraud in many mediums and channelings, there is also something where people get into a trance and genuinely believe that they are possessed or they are channelling. It is so real for them and they are very convinced.

But have you people ever wondered that this is similar to dreams that we get during the night? Such experiences may be interesting but the problem arises when they are given the kind of importance that such experiences don't deserve.

The misrepresentation happens only when we give our own imaginary meanings, interpretations and explanations to these phenomena.

 

 

[Faceless]

@Shanmugam

7 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

“So, it is very clear that people only experience things which they already know of.” 

 

 

 

 

That seems very reasonable friend

Edited January 9, 2018 by Faceless

[Shanmugam]

1 minute ago, Faceless said:

@Shanmugam

 

What I meant was, if the people who are channelling never heard of Lemuria, Atlantis and the terms like light years etc, they may not say such things.. Their interpretation may be completely different.

[Joseph Maynor]

It's hard to judge the intent of people.  Maybe someone else's beliefs really resonate with them.  Do you want to get in the business of judging beliefs?  I don't think that's a good idea.  Let it go if it's not hurting anyone.  Science is a set of erroneous beliefs too.  This work is about getting in touch with the Existential Truth anyway.  All this Science and Philosophy bullshit is really just a distraction to that purpose too.  If you want to be Enlightened, you need to empty your cup anyway.  It's all in the intent though.  If someone is just dicking around, then that can be gently stopped.  But all beliefs are not the Existential Truth, so arguing which is better than others in this work is beside the point.  

Edited January 9, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Faceless]

@Shanmugam

yeah I totally agree with that 

[Guest Annetta]

@Shanmugam Not always, I didn't have any knowledge or interest in what came to me.

It's a crap shoot. ??

[Faceless]

It’s not an attack on anyone personally. Just an observation that one comes in thought inquiry

[Shanmugam]

@Joseph Maynor If by the word 'judgement' you mean judging what is good or bad, the tendency of comparing oneself to another person in terms of goodness, morality etc just to feel better, than that is probably how people interpret what I say, that is not intentional..

I am just sharing my observations..

 

[Faceless]

We can only experience somthing that we know. Somthing we have learned in the past through memory/experience/knowledge, which is thought. 

This is a simple observation that comes with thought inquiry. 

Of course this should be seen personally  

Edited January 9, 2018 by Faceless

[star ark]

32 minutes ago, Shanmugam said:

There is one interesting information I want to convey here.. There is very common and interesting stuff which happens in India in almost every village of south India. And when I see the nature of these channellings, I see a striking similarity..

In each village in South India, there are village deities. People in the village believe that these deities are like gatekeepers.

Here is an example:

Often during village temple festivals, some people get into a trance. And then they start to speak, implying that the deity has possessed them. Their voice and face expressions change and they start to foretell the future. They also start demanding things like 'you need to give me this, you need to conduct this festival in such a way' etc.. This is a regular phenomenon and I have seen such things probably hundreds of times and it has happened to a few of my own relatives living in villages... It is called as divine possession. People who seemed to be possessed and people around them are pretty convinced that it is real. 

But such things only happen in villages in South India. If you visit my place during June-July, you can see this happening everywhere. But such things only happen in villages, and only happens to Hindus. But strangely, these village deities have never possessed anybody in the West and the Aliens you are talking about have never possessed people in my country. So, it is very clear that people only experience things which they already know of.

Even though there is intentional fraud in many mediums and channelings, there is also something where people get into a trance and genuinely believe that they are possessed or they are channelling. It is so real for them and they are very convinced.

But have you people ever wondered that this is similar to dreams that we get during the night? Such experiences may be interesting but the problem arises when they are given the kind of importance that such experiences don't deserve.

The misrepresentation happens only when we give our own imaginary meanings, interpretations and explanations to these phenomena.

 

 

I believe that the Bicameral Mind theory explains this. I only heard about this theory yesterday and have been reading everything I can. It's very intriguing. 

[Shanmugam]

@star ark  Bicameral Mind theory actually makes sense.. You can also look up 'Alien hand syndrome'

'Alien hand syndrome (AHS) is a condition in which a person experiences their limbs acting seemingly on their own, without control over the actions'

There is something called corpus callosum in our brain which connects left brain and right brain. When two hemispheres are surgically separated, it is almost like there are two people in the same body, My left brain can make decisions that my right brain is not aware of and vice versa. Once I read about this, my whole perception of consciousness changed.

There are things which are not certain yet. But human beings have a tendency to avoid uncertainty by unconsciously adding their own explanations to fill in the gaps.