Beware of this Psychological trap!

[SOUL]

40 minutes ago, Nahm said:

It’s atoms. Which are nothing. You can make a foundation, take enough psylicibin, and see for yourself also. The double slit is nice too. But, for the love of God, this is my opinion, it’s nothing more than nothing. I am wholly fake. Every word of this is fake. I’m not claiming to even know what the claiming is. 

You have at least one point, though.... it's just your opinion.

[Nahm]

@SOUL you’re right.

[SOUL]

@Nahm Observing what is doesn't make one right.

[Shanmugam]

31 minutes ago, Annetta said:

Dieties are their own consciousness, but they are developed through the Self as well as the archetypal unconscious.  Thoughts create reality, apparently.  The image of a diety is just a visual spaceholder.

The collective human shadow is an entity as well, but also not.

What are your opinions on this?

I would agree with what Osho said regarding this:
 

Quote

 

There is an episode in Ramakrishna’s life.... For his whole life he had been worshipping Mother Kali, But at the very end he began to feel,” It is duality; the experience of oneness has still not happened. It is lovely, delightful, but two still remains two.” Someone loves a woman, someone loves money, someone politics; he loved Ma Kali – but love still was divided in two. Still the ultimate nonduality hadn’t happened and he was in anguish. He began looking out for a nondualist, a Vedantist – for Some person to come who could show him the path.

A Paramahansa named Totapuri was passing. Ramakrishna invited him to stop with him and asked, ”Help me to have darshan of the one.”

Totapuri said, ”What’s difficult in that? You believe there are two, so there are two. Drop the belief!” Ramakrishna replied, ”But dropping this belief is very difficult – I have lived with it my whole life. When I close my eyes the image of Kali is standing there. I drown in that nectar. I forget that I am to become one; as soon as I close my eyes there are two. When I try to meditate, it becomes dual. Help me out of this!”

So Totapuri said, ”Try this: when the image of Kali is before you, pick up a sword and cut her in two.” Ramakrishna said, ”Where will I find a sword?”

What Totapuri said is the same as what is said in Ashtavakra’s sutra*. Totapuri said, ”From where did you bring this Kali image? – bring a sword from the same place. She too is imaginary. She too is an embellishment of your imagination. Through nurturing it for your whole life, through continuously projecting it for your whole life, it has become crystalized. It is just imagination. Not everyone sees Kali when they close their eyes.”

After years of effort a Christian closes his eyes, and Christ comes to him. A devotee of Krishna closes his eyes and Krishna comes to him. A lover of Buddha closes his eyes and Buddha comes to him. A lover of Mahavira closes his eyes and Mahavira comes to him. Christ doesn’t come to a Jaina, Mahavira doesn’t come to a Christian: only the image you project will come. Ramakrishna’s effort was with Kali, and the image became almost solid. It became so real from constant repetition, from continuous remembering, that it seemed Kali was standing in from of him. No one was standing there.

Consciousness is alone. There is no second here, no other.

”Just close your eyes,” Totapuri said, ”raise the sword and strike.”

Ramakrishna closed his eyes, but as soon as he closed them his courage vanished. Raising his sword to strike Kali! – the devotee has to raise his sword and strike God – it was too hard. To renounce the world is very easy. What is worth holding onto in the world? But when you have established an image deep in the mind, when you have created poetry in the mind, when the mind’s dream has become manifest, then it is very difficult to renounce it. The world is like a nightmare. A dream of devotion, a dream of feeling is not a nightmare, it is a very sweet dream. How to drop it? how to break it?

Tears would start flowing from his eyes and he became ecstatic... his body would begin shaking. But he didn’t raise his sword – he would completely forget about it. Finally Totapuri said, ”I’ve wasted many days here. It’s no good. Either you do it or I’m going to leave. Don’t waste my time. Enough of this nonsense now!” That day Totapuri brought a piece of glass with him, and he said, ”When you begin to be absorbed in delight, I will cut your forehead with this piece of glass. When I cut your forehead, inside gather courage, raise your sword and cut Kali in two. This is the last chance – I am not staying any longer.”

Totapuri’s threat of leaving... and it is difficult to find such a master. Totapuri must have been a man like Ashtavakra. Ramakrishna closed his eyes and Kali’s image appeared to him. He was about to bliss out – tears were ready to flow from his eyes, overwhelmed, joy was coming – he was about to become ecstatic when Totapuri held his forehead and, where the third eye chakra is, made a cut from top to bottom with the piece of glass. Blood began to stream from the cut, and this time

Ramakrishna found courage. He raised the sword and cut Kali in two pieces. When Kali fell apart he became nondual: the wave dissolved in the ocean, the river fell into the ocean. It is said that he stayed immersed for six days in this ultimate silence. He was neither hungry nor thirsty – there was no consciousness of the outside, no awareness. All was forgotten. And when he opened his eyes six days later, the first thing he said was, ”The last barrier has fallen!”

  - 'Enlightenment: The Only Revolution' , Osho

 

 

[Guest Annetta]

@Shanmugam Letting go of labeling or identifying w images?  I've done that, but spiritual experiences feel better than ego death.

Do you have any advice on getting over the fear of it?  

I tried settling into the fear of a panic attack last night and nearly got there before I chickened out.

Like, my mind just will not accept what is, I can't seem to do it.

Are you Prabhaker?  He liked to post Osho quotes.

[Shanmugam]

@Annetta  The only way to get rid of fear is to go through it. The more people avoid it, the more stronger it will become.. There is really nothing to lose except the sense of separation. Many people face this fear while meditation and it is normal. But it will go away.

No, I am not Prabhakar

Here is another quote from Osho for you:
 

Quote

 

People are not afraid of death, they are afraid of losing their separation, they are afraid of losing their ego. Once you start feeling separate from existence the fear of death arises because then death seems to be dangerous. You will no longer be separate; what will happen to your ego, your personality? And you have cultivated the personality with such care, with such great effort; you have polished it your whole life, and death will come and destroy it.

If you understand, if you see, if you can feel and experience that you are not separate from existence, that you are one with it, all fear of death disappears because there is nobody to die inside you. In the first place there is nobody at all, existence lives through you.

Saint Paul says, “Not I, but Christ lives through me.” And Christ says, “Not I, but God lives through me.” They are expressing their non-separation, they are declaring that they are one with existence.

Once you know that you are one with existence there is no death possible. For death to be possible first you have to create a private, personal life; then death becomes possible. You make death possible by creating the ego; and the stronger the ego, the more will be the fear of death. Hence the most egoistic person is very very prone… deep down, trembling, afraid of death. The less the ego the less the fear of death.

That’s why small children are not afraid of death — their egos are not yet born. Animals are not afraid of death, they simply die; when death comes they die. When birth comes they are here, when death comes they are gone.

A person of true consciousness will come like the wind and will go like the wind. He will not leave any traces anywhere. He will not struggle with death, because he will not struggle with life itself. He will allow life to flow through him and he will allow death also to flow through him. Life is God’s and death is God’s; life is a manifestation, death is a rest.

And remember, if the fear of death disappears then all other fears disappear automatically, because all other fears are nothing but by-products of the main, basic fear — the fear of death. Go into any of your fears and ultimately you will come to the rock-bottom, and that will be the fear of death.”

Osho, The Guest,

 

 

[snowleopard]

@Mighty Mouse 

23 minutes ago, Mighty Mouse said:

Don't be too hard on yourself, it needs time and it can't be forced

Well said ... Sometimes the best advice is so short and sweet

Btw, can I copy and paste your latest post about in-the-closet dicks in the oxymoronic 'I reached the Absolute' thread, and claim it as my own in countless other forums, while playing the mighty mouse theme?

 

[Guest Annetta]

@Shanmugam Okay dude... got my coffee ready.  Three cups drank.  I'm gunna try and face it tonight.  

[Guest Annetta]

Okay, it is here.  Time to start. ?

[snowleopard]

1 hour ago, Annetta said:

Okay, it is here.  Time to start.

Don't keep us in suspense ... It's making me anxious  ... Guess I should investigate that too  

[Guest Annetta]

@snowleopard It showed up and I controlled the panic attack by the necessity of needing to get through fear, so I never overcame the fear of death, only came to the realisation that fear can be controlled. ?

[pluto]

There is no trap, there are no rules.

You are here to play and by playing you expand and become more whole closer to who and what you really are more than anything else.

This will all make sense upon death, or shall we say Awakening

[Markus]

All beliefs are blind and groundless by definition. We have the ones we want to have, that we purely intuit are sensible or "correct", and within the confines of them we evaluate new things. No way out of it, really.

[SOUL]

3 hours ago, Markus said:

All beliefs are blind and groundless by definition.

So what you're saying is that your belief that "all beliefs are blind and groundless by definition" is blind and groundless. Which is interesting because you believe this to be a true statement and the actual definition of belief is accepting something is true.

Although, the definition of belief does not mention or imply that the acceptance is blind and groundless so your belief really is blind and groundless but not the actual definition of the word belief  or necessarily accurate about others belief.

There definitely is some ironic humor in this.

[Dodo]

I think the matter is simple: 

Try it if you want to see if it works.

If it works - it works. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. 

Yes, no need to believe. Just relax and let it happen, or don't. Why believe or not believe, just flow. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Dodo

[SOUL]

1 hour ago, Mighty Mouse said:

The definition of belief is accepting something as true without knowing it to be true.

You can't really get anywhere with spirituality as long as you're stuck on the level of belief.

Same fallacy going on in all the debates about free will.

 Again that is just another belief about belief that isn't the actual definition of it. The definition and in practice it is just accepting something as true or exists and it doesn't depend on whether someone knows it is true or not or even depends on if it is true or not just that one accepts it to be true or exist.

[SOUL]

@Dodo   This is what you accept exists and though it works for you it by definition is a belief  even if you don't believe it to be it.

[Dodo]

8 minutes ago, SOUL said:

@Dodo   This is what you accept exists and though it works for you it by definition is a belief  even if you don't believe it to be it.

I don't understand what you mean. Please rephrase. From what I understood I think you're over analyzing belief. 

Are you saying that even if it works for me, without my prior blind belief in it (before trying and checking in my own experience) , it's still a belief? 

That's cool, but not my definition of belief. I think you're too radical! 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Dodo

[Guest Annetta]

@Mighty Mouse I have a course I bought on discernment if anyone is having paranormal experiences then it might be helpful.  

If someone needs it they can pm me.

[AleksM]

@Mighty Mouse

I think he hasn't yet made a video about that.

I think of it like that, a belief is an embodied thought; for example, you have a thought that you are open minded. Having a thought is cool, but you need to embody your thoughts trough repetition so they become embodied beliefs, like actual neural connections in the brain. So to do that you need direct experience that is showing you that you are open minded and not just one, but hundreds of direct experiences. Hundreds of experiences when you were able to switch your perspectives on a certain topic even if it was painfull for example.

Another example might be (I am healthy, I eat healthy and I exercise) - well what direct experiences do you have that promote that thought? Do you eat healthy? Are you going to the gym every week for 3 hours? Are you feeling good in your body?

Another example might be (I am non reactive when interacting with people) - am I able to be non-reactive when a lower consciousness, neurotic person talks shit about me? How often?

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by AleksM