Can an actualized person be in a successful relationship with a low-consc. one?

[pluto]

Highly unlikely but it is possible, there's always a way although most of the time its not going to harmonize and most probably not worth it in the long run. Trust your inner-guidance above everything else.

[Leo Gura]

The problem would be: a disconnect in values.

You can't be in an effective relationship with someone when your values are totally different.

And the deeper question is: Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who's not into your values?

That would be sort of like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit. It might work for a while, but not in the long run.

[Charlotte]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem would be: a disconnect in values.

You can't be in an effective relationship with someone when your values are totally different.

And the deeper question is: Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who's not into your values?

That would be sort of like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit. It might work for a while, but not in the long run.

@Leo Gura Completely agree. Starting to witness this in my own relationship sadly, causing a lot of friction. 

[Moreira]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The problem would be: a disconnect in values.

You can't be in an effective relationship with someone when your values are totally different.

And the deeper question is: Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who's not into your values?

That would be sort of like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit. It might work for a while, but not in the long run.

Ok, but low consciousness doesnt mean that this person has no values, just that she/he is in another stage and that isnt incompatible with a love relationship.

A girlfriend has the role to provide love, intimacy, affection, sex, live experiences... but not a spiritual companion.

The same when guys expect his gf to be their best friend, NO.

I'm into spirituality, self development, have great wisdom, but I cant talk about that with a friend or a girliend or family because they cant understand me, and I dont expect them to understand me.

I cannot say I will only socialize with  awake people who meditates, vegan, who doesnt smoke, not materialistic...

Otherwise I'd be alone and miserable, I know I dont have to change people, accept how they are, in their stage of spiritual evolution where they are.

[student]

@Moreira "but I cant talk about that with a friend or a girliend or family because they cant understand me"

If you can't "find" a girlfriend and friends who can listen to you and at least just have a sincere desire to understand you, then you yourself are not conscious enough. Your level of consciousness dictates your behaviour and overall vibe that you communicate. It is impossible for open-minded persons not to be "attracted" to you, not to sense something different about you.

People who can not listen to you must be left alone. You can not force development onto someone else. You can just live accordingly to your higher self and the "right" persons will come to you. Superficial persons will just drag you down if you are not independent enough, and inner independence is a hard thing to gain.

Edited January 13, 2018 by student

[Leo Gura]

@Moreira Personal Dev, Consciousness, Growth, Truth, Learning, Health, Reading Books, etc. -- these are all values. Some people value them, some don't.

People who are into self-actualization should seek out relationships with other people who are also into self-actualization. Otherwise, you two will quickly grow apart.

This doesn't mean the person has to share all of your values, but there needs to be at least like 50% alignment on the most important ones.

You can't be a self-actualizer who dates a fundamentalist Mormon. It's not going to work. The freedom and honesty that comes from self-actualization will disturb the Mormon too much.

Fundamentally, you want to find a person who's into growing themselves and values health over dysfunction.

That can be hard to find. But that's what a self-actualizer needs.

Start hanging around yoga classes or Wholefoods, where such people congregate

[Faceless]

From an objective angle 

 

If this relationship is conditioninal then is it actualy a relationship at all? 

If the relationship is dependent on conditions then is it genuin? If so can this relationship built on conditions share the beauty of love? 

Or is it just another form of self worship or a very subtle attempt to self gratify ones own well being? 

I guess one would have to know the nature of relationship and love right? 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Faceless Which relationship is unconditional???

You don't even have an unconditional relationship with yourself. You'd kill yourself given the right condition

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Moreira Personal Dev, Consciousness, Growth, Truth, Learning, Health, Reading Books, etc. -- these are all values. Some people value them, some don't.

People who are into self-actualization should seek out relationships with other people who are also into self-actualization. Otherwise, you two will quickly grow apart.

So practical. So boooooring.

I can find plenty like this in my Sangha.

For me, I want a woman where there is the “it” factor. Magic. I can’t create it, deny it or resist it. We go to amazing spaces. Beyond words, theories, concepts.  Like a psychedelic. Only 4 women in 32 yrs of dating have had this effect. Without it, there is a bland feeling. I know she is good to me, yet so is my mom.

[Leo Gura]

@Serotoninluv Then you should be picking up girls at the strip club. A dose of batshit crazy, alcoholic, and Daddy issues from there will keep your ego entertained and hooked like a fish

[Moreira]

Ive met women with weak psychology who ran away their past looking for refuge in the yoga-new-age spiritual thing, and to calm their guilt.

But they remain in the superficial aspect or yoga, they would buy every fancy useless amulet, dress with hippie disguises, mandalas, incense, or buy a expensive pillow for meditation...

Spirituality today is attractive to low consciouss people who make the mistake to look enlightenment in the future, waiting for a perfect moment that never comes. Some lazy people are also attracted to this lifestyle.

Also alpha women have strong ambition and purposes, they progress in the matrix, but are trapped into it.

For me a spiritual alpha woman without psychologycal issues would be the deal, but hard to find like a gold nugget.

[Aquarius]

@MaxBlank Thanks, I actually wanted to delete this topic shortly after posting it because I realised these things myself as well. I'm not even sure what I was asking myself with this post. I hope I didn't sound too bigoted. I guess I was just wondering if someone who doesn't even care about his life can be with someone who wants to eternally grow. But I should ask this from myself not other people...  

On 1/10/2018 at 10:11 PM, MaxBlank said:

The answer to question 1 will always be "you". That will always be the answer.

The answer to question 2 is a question: "Can you love this person AS HE IS?"

The answer to question 5 is a question: Can you let him discover this path for himself in his own time, in his own way; only providing loving kindness when appropriate?

 

If you understand these, I think you can easily know if the relationship is worth a shot.

 

[Aquarius]

On 1/13/2018 at 11:05 AM, Leo Gura said:

The problem would be: a disconnect in values.

You can't be in an effective relationship with someone when your values are totally different.

And the deeper question is: Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who's not into your values?

That would be sort of like wearing a shoe that doesn't fit. It might work for a while, but not in the long run.

Omg Leo saw my post *explodes* <333

Ok sorry. *cough cough* Soooo, yeah I agree, it's not that I am wrong or he is, just different values.

And an answer to your question, maybe I just love this shoe. Idk. It's my favourite shoe.

20 hours ago, Moreira said:

Ok, but low consciousness doesnt mean that this person has no values, just that she/he is in another stage and that isnt incompatible with a love relationship.

A girlfriend has the role to provide love, intimacy, affection, sex, live experiences... but not a spiritual companion.

The same when guys expect his gf to be their best friend, NO.

I'm into spirituality, self development, have great wisdom, but I cant talk about that with a friend or a girliend or family because they cant understand me, and I dont expect them to understand me.

I cannot say I will only socialize with  awake people who meditates, vegan, who doesnt smoke, not materialistic...

Otherwise I'd be alone and miserable, I know I dont have to change people, accept how they are, in their stage of spiritual evolution where they are.

I sense some ego.  

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv Then you should be picking up girls at the strip club. A dose of batshit crazy, alcoholic, and Daddy issues from there will keep your ego entertained and hooked like a fish

Daaayyumm...  

[Faceless]

@Leo Gura

lol 

The question still remains if there are conditions is there actualy a relationship at all? 

Lets see what some others have to say before we get into that?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Faceless

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Serotoninluv Then you should be picking up girls at the strip club. A dose of batshit crazy, alcoholic, and Daddy issues from there will keep your ego entertained and hooked like a fish

Nope. That aint it at all. My current gf serves people in need. She works with refugess, people with HIV, the homeless, and domestic violence victims. She leads a team, teaches workshops, organizes programs and works one-on-one as a mentor. She put herself through graduate school and is independent.

She does all this while I am sitting around meditating, reading self actaulization blogs and videos and conceptualizing in my head. 

I find her empathy, compassion, leadership, creativity and ability to initiate, take action and serve others to be very attractive and inspiring. She is out there LIVING it.

I have much more interest in personal development and she has much more interest in community development.  At times this difference has caused strife, yet overall she is a mirror of myself and I am learning a lot about myself and personally developing.

All of that would make a good friend or coworker.  Yet, she is also the rare case where we have that “it” factor. We have gone to spaces we didn’t know exist. These are spaces difficult to describe in words, just like psychedelic experiences are difficult to describe in words. 

Yes, I like having personal development interests in common, yet there is an “IS” beyond words, thoughts and theories. To be that intimately with another is rare and proound. Similiar to how psychedelics have changed my perception of life, these moments have changed my perception of relationships. It’s an intimacy that transcends language, emotion, physical and intellect. It’s not something I or we can create - it happens to us from something mysterious. Like getting struck by lightening. Once I experienced it, relationships without it are bland - regardless of how much personal development we do together. 

To me, the tone of your message seems patronizing with a limited perspective. Saying to go look for an alcoholic stripper is similiar to saying psychedelics are just a form of escape from reality - like how an alcoholic escapes. Not true.

With that said, the *normal* regular life we are all programned to live is a dominant force. The differences in practical matters between my gf and me could very well separate us. There are lower level conciousness issues such as fear, insecurity, jealousy that we don’t communicate well and are not growing together. She has walls and defenses I’m not sure how to work with. However, rather than entertaining my ego she stands up to my ego and calls my ego out - sometimes fiercely. This can be very uncomfortable, yet has opened up development avenues for me.

Edited January 14, 2018 by Serotoninluv

[Forestluv]

@Hira Athar I’m in a somewhat similiar situation. One thing I’m becoming aware of is that I’m the one that often stirs things up. For example, she mentioned how the Christian faith has helped one of her friends. I’m the one who escalated it by raising logical and moral inconsistencies in a Christian framework. How does one believe an anthropomorphic Christian god transmitted absolute morality through scripture that sanctions slavery, condemns homosexuality and and sentences adulturous wimen to death by stoning? If we cherry pick the moral parts, arent we then playing god by deciding which parts are moral and immoral. . . Well, this is the type of discusion better suited for my sangha than my gf. It never gies over well. . . So now, I am trying to compartmentalize my spiritual growth with my spiritual circle and not instigate with my gf. I’m curious how much of our strife us actually due to me stirring the pot.

[student]

@Moreira

"For me a spiritual alpha woman without psychologycal issues would be the deal, but hard to find like a gold nugget."

I think that's what we all try to achieve, to be "alpha" persons. So it might be hard to find alphas, because we ourselves are not at that "level". But we at least can find persons who can share the same sincere desire and vision as us: evolution, progress, development, and grow together.

 

[Epiphany_Inspired]

@Aquarius the different values thing is key, crucial really! Please be soooooooooooo very grateful that you do not have a child with someone with opposing values! If motherhood is a future possibility for you, I suggest getting out before it's too late... love will always remain in our heart 

[Barbarian Number 8]

Hello

Very good questions. Been bumping in to them myself.

Perhaps you can use my conclusions?

1. Patience, knowing that "there is another way", normies unnecessery reactions to pointless events, normies projection of personal shortcommings onto the other person and coming to the insight that a fantastic body is not enough to actually keeping my interest and satisfaction.

2. If it is a nonsexual, it can be. You just have to accept that the other person operate as a "static being in mental stasis".

So this one one works on family members. In romance I´ve never ever got it to work.

3. No. Avoid. Abort. It takes to much to change the essens of a human being. It is like getting a druggie of the needle. Ipossible if the don´t want it themselves. If the do want...damn near impossible.

4. "In love" is a passing state.

5. A change of a persons vey core? That change for desire must come from within....and may take a lifetime...

 

It sounds very dark , but sometimes life gets better when loosing things that dont work and finding something more compatible.

[Aquarius]

@Epiphany_Inspired I never want a child.