Everyone is able to be loved right????

[BobbyLowell]

A lot of people around me are judging others as unlovable or don't think everyone can be loved. I know everyone is able to be loved, but I can't be solid in my belief because many people around me think otherwise. It makes me feel like wow the world really is a horrible place. How do I become strong and unbending in my belief that everyone can be loved???

[BobbyLowell]

@Shiva okay. That seems better. How can I get to that?

[Leo-Tzu]

What kind of love you mean? If you were born to a healthy mother at least she loved you. . . Your family your friends love you . . . If you want a girlfriend to love you , you gotta get your ass and play the game and risking to get hurt a lot. . .

[h inandout]

@BobbyLowell Meditation helps you pay attention to the subtle inner workings of your own mind, which is where things like what @Shiva said start to incrementally make sense.  Get any meditation book at the library, and it will open you up.  Really learn the theory behind the practice first.  

You might prefer a meditation practice that centers around love.  I do a loving-kindness practice sometimes when I'm bored or unfocused during my morning 1hr sit.  Maybe look for that key word.

[Shin]

19 minutes ago, Shiva said:

By raising your consciousness in general. Love, kindness, compassion etc. are natural consequences of consciousness.

Most of Leo's videos and basically all of spirituality essentially deal with raising consciousness. There's no one way to do it. 

True that, I even love my door and my tootbrush now.

It's pretty weird in the bed though (he's jealous of the tootbrush ...) ...

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Shin

[Nahm]

@BobbyLowell In my estimation unconditional love is the source of all of us, everything else is attaching to a thought relative to the self/person. Deducing if everyone can be loved will only ever be a thought, self inquiry to one’s own unconditional love is a worthwhile experience and the gift that keeps on giving. ❤️

[NEW11]

@BobbyLowell

I'll assume you're talking about romantic love. Otherwise, this would be way too simple, I mean if someone says that "that guy can never be loved", you could say "well I love him like a brother", or "his mother surely loves him".

"Horrible people". For them, they'll always be a reason to dislike you. If you learn to take joy in life, be happy and become enlightened, they'll say you only did that because you're poor. If you have money, they'll flock to you like birds but hate you for your success. When you fail, they'll leave you quicker than they came to you. If you gained your success by being smart, reading a lot of books and applying your knowledge in the real world, they'll criticize your appearance (there will always be something else to criticize). If you go to the gym and eat healthy and fix just everything else that you can fix about yourself, then they'll criticize some aspect of you that you can't change: you're too short, you're white, you've been born in a place and to a family that gave you more opportunities, so naturally you succeeded, while they did not (even if they actually know about what opportunities you had, they'll still assume things and criticize you).

You look to these people and see that they find what they call "love". They find someone who fits all their shallow criteria and they are happy. While I'll admit that some endorphins are released into their brains, can they ever be as happy as someone who truly worked for their success or someone who is enlightened? Can they ever truly love, for their love turns to hatred as soon as one of their shallow criteria isn't met, and can they ever truly receive unconditional love from you, when they have so much hatred in their hearts?

Are these the people that make your faith waver? They, who deal judgement, not realising that the judgement that they pass is actually not about the person that they point to, but about themselves. This kind of people will never know true love.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

PS: I'd also like to tell you a short story, to make you see that what I'm saying isn't just taken from a dream and disconnected from reality. I remember, some time ago a friend told me: "It's easy to say 'everyone can be loved' when you're leading a wonderful life, blind to the hardships that others may face, that you do not. When you're dating hot chicks every other night, it's easy to look to someone who's not so fortunate and say 'he/she'll find someone', but in actuality, neither you or anyone you know would ever date someone like them. Would you ever date a fat girl? Or a blind girl? Or a girl that didn't have a leg?" - Well... in 2 months I'll be marrying a blind girl.

And another story: I remember a friend telling me that he wants to date a girl who's just as smart or even smarter than him. He said that he could never be with a dumb girl, no matter how beautiful she'd be, because he wouldn't be able to talk anything with her or relate to her. Well... guess what. Apparently, he has plenty to talk about with a girl who can't locate Spain on the map to save her life. Even if you say "I'd never be with someone like that", you're not actually in full control of who you fall in love with. You never know what surprises the other person has up their sleeve.

PS2: "How do I become strong and unbending in my belief that everyone can be loved???" - wrong question. Doubt is good, doubt is the beginning of wisdom. You do not just choose what you believe, you seek proof and you conclude what is the most probable truth from that. If you doubt your belief and you seek proof, then next time you talk to someone else, you'll be able to provide them counter-arguments or even change their mind. If you just believe, then even if you actually believe in what's true, that won't help you one bit. So if you really want to seek proof, then whenever someone says "a person like that can never be loved", I'm sure you could find 3 couples to point to, that would prove them wrong. You can go to the ones they criticize and actually try to help them. You may find that many of the ones that they criticize actually lead a better life than them.

Furthermore, if your faith still wavers, you don't have to stay with these people. These are toxic, self-absorbed people. Find a better group of people to hang out with.

Edited January 6, 2018 by NEW11

[Helios]

The only person that will be able to love you unconditionally is yourself.

[NEW11]

@Helios I always saw love of self as narcissism. In my mind, love and self do not mix, as love should be about giving, giving to the world, to your partner, to your padawan, to your children, to your parents, etc. If you make a gift to yourself, that's not giving, that's just taking.

[Nahm]

@NEW11 love is self. Where is the love you’re giving coming from?

[NEW11]

@Nahm Words games do not bring about the truth. Love is not self, just as I am not art, even though I can paint, sing a song or play an instrument. You may say that "art is inside me", but that's only a metaphor, not truth. Enlightened masters are the ones who experience love at its fullest, after they have gotten rid of the self. The self does not exist. Love does.

[Nahm]

@NEW11 it’s not word gaming. It’s what one means by words like, self. We are saying the same thing. We have different meaning for self.

[NEW11]

@Nahm 

Ah... I see that my padawan joke has been ignored.

There may be multiple uses of the word love that mean entirely different things. I get that you mean a "universal love" of sorts. However, it seems to me that the concern of BobbyLowell was romantic love. For me, that love is about "giving". Not necessarily giving materialist gifts, but giving your time, sharing your feelings, etc. In that context, you cannot be 'in love' with yourself without being a narcissist.

To answer the question "can everyone be (romantically) loved?" by "you can love yourself" is to ignore the question. It's as shallow as if I asked "can everyone learn advanced mathematics?" and you looked to me and said "everything around us can be expressed through mathematics". I grant you that in another context that might be viewed as "deep", but here, it is shallow.

When I initially answered the question, I took the meaning "romantic love" because in there I saw the challenge. Otherwise, my answer would've been "adopt a couple of cats". To say "everyone can experience other types of love" is no challenge really. But they are actually completely different feelings. The love I feel for my mother is not the same that I feel for my girlfriend, and the fact that they're both called "love" is just an unfortunate accident of this language. There should be two different words. I can say that I love my mother, and my father, even my dog, but I am only in love with my girlfriend.

So what kind of love is that you direct to yourself? And wouldn't it be more accurate to call it "taking care of yourself", "growing yourself", "not being a doormat", (as in putting all the whims and wishes of others before you) "self-preservation", "accepting your flaws", "common sense" or something like that?

 

[Ian]

3 hours ago, NEW11 said:

@Helios I always saw love of self as narcissism. In my mind, love and self do not mix, as love should be about giving, giving to the world, to your partner, to your padawan, to your children, to your parents, etc. If you make a gift to yourself, that's not giving, that's just taking.

@NEW11
I can only apologize for how ridiculously preachy this is going to sound, but the pain contained in these sentences you wrote screams at me, and I feel obliged to acknowledge it and to attempt to soothe it.

One of my favourite quotations seems very appropriate here, "You can render to God and humanity no greater service than to make the most of yourself." - Wallace Wattles.

Another wise man who completely understood the nature and power of love once said this: "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Maybe you've heard it before? )

Those who do not understand this natural law take your interpretation:
1) Assume that we already love ourselves enough.
2) Any more self-love is narcissistic/evil etc.
3) Try our absolute best to love others, and then wonder why on Earth it's so difficult, and why the world is full of other people incapable of love.

There is nobody better placed in the entire universe to provide you the love you need, than you yourself. It is to the detriment of the world that you neglect to love your own heart. If you truly want to help others, this is a necessary first step. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

May you be blessed with the love of divinity

 

(If you're sufficiently interested: Jesus explains in three short verses that all is one, you are love, and that our interactions with others are simply a reflection of our interactions with ourselves): https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12%3A28-31&version=KJV

Edited January 6, 2018 by Ian

[star ark]

Love thyself

You will give out some negative vibes if you don't love yourself, and you may only attract partners who are in your exact situation, and then you and your "lover" actually don't love anything.

[NEW11]

@Ian You obviously ignored what I've been saying. I was talking about romantic love, and you cannot be "in love" with yourself unless you are narcissistic. If you want to define love in some other way, then suit yourself.

PS: Yeah, it is preachy. I mean what Jesus said was alright, but you can't make a "should" out of love. You can't force someone to love somebody else, no matter what type of love you're talking about. And punishing them for disobeying this with hell for eternity? Well, I'm sorry, but for all my dislike for "horrible people" in my initial comment, I dislike this a million times more.

I find "love yourself" better said as "accept yourself" or even better: "know thyself".

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by NEW11

[Nahm]

On 1/4/2018 at 2:07 PM, BobbyLowell said:

A lot of people around me are judging others as unlovable or don't think everyone can be loved. I know everyone is able to be loved, but I can't be solid in my belief because many people around me think otherwise. It makes me feel like wow the world really is a horrible place. How do I become strong and unbending in my belief that everyone can be loved???

@NEW11 I’ve read it again, I don’t see it as in regards to romantic love. If you see it that way, ok. If you say self is ego, ok. I understand. What lies beneath, is the source, which I experience, as unconditional love. That, is self. The rest is illusion. It is within. It is experienced without conditions and judgements like shallow, padawan, narcissistic. When all that is shed, what’s left is unconditional love, and it’s blissful. - Not in love with the self, not in love with the ego, but going through the self, going through the ego, seeing all is self, all is love. 

[NEW11]

@Nahm  The reason I saw BobbyLowell's question as implying "romantic love" is because when people say "that guy/girl can never be loved" they don't think of universal love, or the types of love that you're talking about (if you think they do, then you need to get out of the house more), they think about romantic love, they think about sex.

Furthermore, I insist. There is no need to define other types of love, or the words "self" or "ego", as this is not what I've been talking about. If you want to start a new conversation with me, about that subject, fine. I do agree with everything that you say then. But I do not agree with mixing a conversation about "universal love" or "self love" with "romantic love", as they are quite different feelings, just as I do not agree with mixing a conversation about geometry with one about calculus. Just because they both are mathematics, doesn't mean they are the same. And if someone comes to you with a question about one of them, but your answer is about the other one, then the conversation makes no sense. It is pointless to keep talking about calculus and show me how versed you are in it if my question was about geometry.

That's why it is shallow to keep telling me about self-love, universal love, etc. when it's clear that this is not what I'm talking about. Because you are completely missing my point (careful, I'm talking only about your conversation with me, not with BobbyLowell). And that's what I called "shallow" - the argument that you gave me - not the type of love you're talking about. Because when it comes to that love, I agree with everything you're saying.

PS: Padawan is not a label (I mean not in this context). Hahahaha... I rolled on the floor when I read that.

Edited January 6, 2018 by NEW11

[Ian]

@NEW11
"You obviously ignored what I've been saying. I was talking about romantic love, and you cannot be "in love" with yourself unless you are narcissistic." This is your understanding. It is beautiful, it is perfect and it is to be honoured. There is no aspect of you that I ignore - I adore all of it.

As for what Jesus said? He never made a "should" or an "ought" out of anything. The word "shalt" (or shall in modern English) is a declaration of universal truth. The law that "thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" is as true a law as "In a natural thermodynamic process, the sum of the entropies of the interacting thermodynamic systems shall increase." or "like poles shall repel, unlike poles shall attract." Science and spirituality is a duality that can be dissolved with greater clarity. #stageturquoiseunderstanding

"You can't force someone to love somebody else, no matter what type of love you're talking about." You are 100% correct. This is what is labelled as free will.

"And punishing them for disobeying this with hell for eternity? Well, I'm sorry, but for all my dislike for "horrible people" in my initial comment, I dislike this a million times more." Firstly, you cannot disobey a natural law any more than the sum of entropies can decrease, or like poles can attract. Secondly, you do not resonate with idea of eternal punishment and find it completely unloving and repulsive? Guess what? So do I, and everybody who understands the nature of love (possibly an overstatement, but whatever, stop me!). I am truly sorry that you have had such a bad experience with regards to religious dogma in the past. In this work, you must be ultra-wary of putting people into ready-made boxes of your own design.

You are clearly very intelligent and very courageous. These attributes will serve you well on your journey. Do you notice just how much stuff we actually agree on? Our understandings are not mutually exclusive; they complement each other, as do all understandings and all perspectives.

I love you

[NEW11]

"In a natural thermodynamic process, the sum of the entropies of the interacting thermodynamic systems increases"

"like poles repel, unlike poles attract."

Shall is obsolete, redundant in both sentences. And you cannot make a new law of physics by adding a "shall". Just like you said, you cannot disobey a law of physics. But the fact that I am able (if I want) to hate my neighbor, shows me that "love thy neighbor" is not a law of physics, but a commandment, a "should". a moralization. It is not the word "shall" that is the key.

"Ready-made boxes"  - Nah, I have no boxes for people, I only have ideas that I dislike. Also I have no bad experience with regards to religious dogma. I even considered becoming a priest once - not because I believe, but because it pays well, at least in my country. You basically work 3h/day, and in a normal week (i.e. no funerals, no marriages, etc.) 4 days are completely free. Also, I never contradicted you. I was merely pointing out that while you were talking about universal love, I was talking about romantic love. That is why I said "you cannot be in love with yourself unless you are narcissistic". Sure you can love yourself, but that love isn't of a romantic nature.

"Science and spirituality is a duality that can be dissolved with greater clarity." - Agreed. But I'm not one of those who rejects religion with science.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by NEW11