Depersonalization panic attack while smoking weed vs. Enlightenment?

[emind]

So I never really smoke weed, I have done so probably a maximum of 10 times in my entire life. Usually I have the normal experience of just feeling relaxed, and giggly. However, the other day while I was smoking, I experienced something truly horrible, and did not know how to explain it. My friends were laughing at me, and I kept saying that I felt like I was "out of my body", it was the most frightening experience Ive ever had. So a couple of months passed by, and then I had that same experience again, out of the blue, while sober. To try to describe it precisely, I felt like what was around me wasnt real in any physical sense, and that the "I" on which I rely upon to navigate through the world, abrubtly dissipated. I truly felt like I was just, empty space. My heart started pounding really heavily, and I panicked, I was almost crying, and kept asking myself "am I going crazy? Where am I? I dont exist!". I then googled the symptoms and found depersonalization disorder, not that Im wanting  to self-diagnose, but that was what most accurately described my experience to be honest.

 

Now, with that said, I am an avid meditator, do like 30 minutes of "do nothing" around 5 times a week. And while meditating I have had this sense of emptiness before, but unlike the "depersonalization episodes", they have been extremely pleasant. So Im wondering, how the hell does this relate to enlightenement? I certainly dont think Im 1% enlightened, but I truly felt like I did not exist, and it was extremely scary, so whats the difference between this and enlightenent? 

 

P.S. The last episode happened a couple of days ago and I havent meditated since because I feel I could have another panick attack.

[tatsumaru]

24 minutes ago, emind said:

So I never really smoke weed, I have done so probably a maximum of 10 times in my entire life. Usually I have the normal experience of just feeling relaxed, and giggly. However, the other day while I was smoking, I experienced something truly horrible, and did not know how to explain it. My friends were laughing at me, and I kept saying that I felt like I was "out of my body", it was the most frightening experience Ive ever had. So a couple of months passed by, and then I had that same experience again, out of the blue, while sober. To try to describe it precisely, I felt like what was around me wasnt real in any physical sense, and that the "I" on which I rely upon to navigate through the world, abrubtly dissipated. I truly felt like I was just, empty space. My heart started pounding really heavily, and I panicked, I was almost crying, and kept asking myself "am I going crazy? Where am I? I dont exist!". I then googled the symptoms and found depersonalization disorder, not that Im wanting  to self-diagnose, but that was what most accurately described my experience to be honest.

 

Now, with that said, I am an avid meditator, do like 30 minutes of "do nothing" around 5 times a week. And while meditating I have had this sense of emptiness before, but unlike the "depersonalization episodes", they have been extremely pleasant. So Im wondering, how the hell does this relate to enlightenement? I certainly dont think Im 1% enlightened, but I truly felt like I did not exist, and it was extremely scary, so whats the difference between this and enlightenent? 

 

P.S. The last episode happened a couple of days ago and I havent meditated since because I feel I could have another panick attack.

There is no such thing as "truly horrible" it's just a perspective. For some, out of body experiences are a welcome entertainment, for others they are perceived as horror. I talked to my mentor about depersonalization horror once and he said "Looks like they weren't depersonalized enough." LOL! The horror comes from your clinging to your default state of existence. You feel like it's something precious that you need to protect. If you were able to panic then your I didn't really dissipate. How can someone who doesn't exist be scared? Obviously this experience is part of what is possible in life so why not just integrate it? Don't demonize it. An orgasm is also scary if you are afraid of orgasms. Watching a mother give birth is the weirdest/scariest thing if you don't know what's going on.
It all depends on the framing:
Negative framing of birth: A bloody tumor is tearing her vagina open and the mother is screaming from pain. The mother can't take it anymore.
Positive framing of birth: A necessary pain required to produce the most beautiful thing in the world - a new piece of life. The mother is excited to hug her newborn baby.

So you can see we really direct our own horror movies. Reality isn't inherently horrific. Next time when it happens just be aware and check it out, maybe it contains new data, new insights about reality.

What I have realized is that life is super weird and the only thing you can do is go further. Excluding possibilities, running away from the unknown creates the perception of nightmare. Why are you running away from it?

Edited January 3, 2018 by tatsumaru

[Nahm]

@emind I feel like you’ve got the body and mostly mind solid from meditation & si, and that the unpleasant factor comes from holding onto some beliefs that the truth you’re experiencing is contending with. 

[starsofclay]

well marijuana is a Hallucinogen, and can really pull some deep stuff out of your subconscious. A different strand may have a stronger effect on that. It is possible that since you visit these forums and the subject of enlightenment is on your mind, the marijuana effect caused you to try and replicate what the feeling might be. However it also can increase anxiety while high, and I'm sure that was not a good combination. Then again, it's also possible it caused you to have a real experience that wasn't a hallucination. Who knows? 

I never count out hallucinations though. People tend to say "oh it was the drug"... but no, the drug only unlocked what was already in your mind. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by starsofclay

[Petez]

Wow, something very similar happened to me  acouple of months ago. I have been meditating daily for about 2.5 years and I don't really smoke weed that often (I find that it makes me anxious and paranoid) and I don't do psychadelics. Anyways, I smoiked quite a bit a while back and I started getting super paranoid and panicing when the weed started taking effect. My heart was racing, was taking really fast breaths and I completely lost my memory for a bit. I didn't know who I was, where I was or that I was even a human. It felt like I was going to become stuck in this mind state forever. It also felt like the walls around me were becoming more "alive", but to be honest I'm not sure exactly what happend. I had a couple of panic attacks and later fell asleep, feeling super shitty and stressed.

The next day, when I walked outside, it felt like the first time I ever went outside. Everything had a "new feel" to it. My sense of self had dropped away. It wasn't anything pleasurable though, I rather felt lost and shitty. My memory was terrible. I had this feeling the next day and also sporadically the day after that. It seems to be depersonalisation from the panic attack I had when I was high as a result of the panic attack.

ANYWAY; just wanted to share my story and tell you that you're not alone in having had this experience. Also, when it comes to weed, I saw a YouTube video by psychedsubstance called "weed is different after psychs". It basically explained that many people become paraniod and anxious when smoking weed after having taked psychadelics. Since meditation and psychadelics pretty much does the same thing to the mind (ego-death), it could be that meditation triggered the depersonalisation. I'm not really sure how the depersonalisation relates to enlightenment as of today, but I will keep meditating and trying to figure out more about this stuff. I'm definitely not smoking weed anytime soon though lol.

[Petez]

Hey I just found a video of Shinzen Young talking about the difference between enlightenment and depersonalization:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zIKQCwDXsA

[star ark]

Could simply be a panic attack with the added influence of distorted perceptions through weed. If you haven't smoked in a while and it's good weed you can really trip out, weed is a psychedelic after all. But maybe it's something more, drugs are said to bring forth genetic predispositions to mental disorders. Maybe you really have seen the "TRUTH" simply by smoking a drug and giggling, maybe you are just impatient. Impossible to say at this point.

[Will Bigger]

Don’t worry about it. Keep meditating and stop smoking weed. 

[Joel3102]

Depersonalisation and enlightenment are very different things, don't confuse the two. DP is a symptom of anxiety where you become numb and dissociated. In my eyes they're nearly polar opposites, but can sound similar on the surface

[Guest Annetta]

Stop smoking weed if you develop those symptoms!

The second one sounds like a run of the mill panic attack.  I have them a lot and know how horrible they can be.

If they start happening a lot, some steps that can help are:

Weighted or electric blankets 

Lavender vanilla aromatherapy 

A few benadryls 

A guided panic attack mediation track on youtube 

Put your head down between your legs so the blood to your heart and head is level or put your feet up a bit higher than chest level when you lay down

 

[Guest Annetta]

@Outer I should work out more.

[Guest Annetta]

@Outer I've heard of this before, I had a friend who worked out four hours a day and had a low resting heart rate.

I'll do it right now 

[cetus]

@emind Enlightenment work (meditation) itself is a type of a slow- controlled depersonalization. It should be positive though because the ego is slowly falling away. Sure it's a bit freaky when you first experience it head on as you did. But the truth is you have no physical location because your not the body. So what you experience did have some truth to it because you are everything. But it caused a paranoia in you only because you held to the ego's finite location of the body/mind instead of just letting it all go. If you want to make some real progress, the next time that happens, just let go. Total surrender! I did when the same thing happened to me. At first it freaked me out a bit. I don't have to tell you, it's really different to experience. So I backed off out of fear. Than I thought, what the heck, maybe this is a rare opportunity presenting itself. So I let go and trusted the universe and surrendered to it. When I did I went into a Samadhi type experience of transcendence and union. It was as if I had connected with my true being beyond the body. Which I never knew existed until it was experienced directly. I now welcome that (no location) or out of body feeling because I know it's a doorway to a higher self. So don't freak yourself out with the depersonalization thing exactly as it's defined. This isn't that.

[star ark]

8 hours ago, Annetta said:

@Outer I've heard of this before, I had a friend who worked out four hours a day and had a low resting heart rate.

I'll do it right now 

Have you heard this one?

Some cultures believe there is only a certain amount of breaths or heart beats we all get in our life. All sorts of stresses can get your breathing and heart beating faster but all sorts of healthy activities can too. A healthy activity might be exercise or having sex, and then you relax afterwards and your heart is slower than usual. So the idea is to offset any heart racing activities with a slower heart rate afterwards, so exercise = slower heart beat overall = longer life. 

No exercise and then sudden heart racing events with no chance to bring the heart rate down = early death. 

Just some ancient oriental wisdom for you

Edited January 15, 2018 by star ark