Higher consciousness can be a "problem"

[Deep]

In this thread, I'm going to explain how and why higher consciousness can become a "problem" while functioning in society. I put problem in quotes because it's a problem from the egoic perspective. By higher consciousness I don't mean being a "goody two shoes." I mean being fully awakened from egoic consciousness. I studied the life of 3 sages and I'll use them as an example later. I'm just writing this to give everyone a different perspective. 

In Advaita, the highest level of consciousness is nirvikalpa samadhi. A good way to describe it is like this: 

“How silly! This jug is God! This cup is God! Whatever we see is God! And we too are God! Nothing could be more absurd.” Sri Ramakrishna came out of his room and gently touched him. Spellbound, he immediately perceived that everything in the world was indeed God. A new universe opened around him. Returning home in a dazed state, he found there too that the food, the plate, the eater himself, the people around him, were all God.

Swami Nikhilananda. Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna (Kindle Locations 1884-1887). Ramakrishna-Vivekananda Center of New York, Inc.. Kindle Edition. 

When the Kundalini reaches the cerebrum, it's also called nirvikalpa samadhi. Here are 3 people who had an awakened Kundalini: 

 

 

 

What do all of these men have in common? They didn't engage in egoic activities. They didn't have a job. They didn't have sex. They had little money. They practiced renunciation. Other people provided them with food and shelter. In ancient India, the kings provided the sages with food and shelter. In return the sages would provide spiritual wisdom. 

How does this become a problem? We need the ego to function in today's society. In modern society we have to provide for ourselves. We have to use concepts whether we like it or not. Language is a concept. Science is a concept. Math is a concept. Money is a concept. We can be detached from concepts, but we still have to use them. The ego attaches to concepts to ensure the body's survival. Kundalini demolishes the ego. 

For example, if a banker on Wall Street experienced nirvikalpa samadhi, he/she would probably quit his job and do whatever the hell he/she wants to. Same with many other people. Why would they participate in mundane bullshit if they can experience God? I think it's wrong when people say, "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." No, enlightenment can dramatically change the way one perceives reality. 

I don't think it's possible to be liberated and succeed in the egoic world. If one chooses spirituality, they should dominate it. If one chooses egoic life, they should dominate it. Nothing can be half-assed. Anyway happy new year! 

 

[Leo-Tzu]

If you're a western citizen of course it sounds strange , the collective unconscious doesnt let you abstain from sex or having a job, the indian culture is thousand years older from ours so even if you abstained from everyday life, sex, food, dont think it would end harming you?... But even for the asian citizens who didnt want to become a stone buddha, Gautama practiced the middle way. Fortunately there are many paths to enlightenment, why do you think is that so?

Edited January 2, 2018 by Leo-Tzu

[Leo-Tzu]

And about that zen quote let me explain it . . . Before enlightenment chop wood carry water (you think you're john smith who's doing the work) After enlightenment chop wood and carry water (you know you're the universe/god playing as john smith doing the work). . . Becoming enlightened doesnt go against becoming a wall street broker . . . They can do it but they know its just a game so they decide not to spend 10 hours in a building full of meaningless numbers. . . So they become explorers of life itself and find the equilibrium between the less work needed to become financially independent and the maximum exploration they can afford with what they have earned.

[Leo Gura]

@Deep Limiting belief. I've personally met plenty of enlightened people who live a normal Western lifestyle, have sex, have kids, go to work, etc.

You don't need to live in a cave unless you want to.

P.S. If enlightenment ends up creating less bankers, good riddance! That's sorta the point. "Conscious banker" is an oxymoron. Hopefully that banker would quit long before enlightenment.

[Natasha]

@Deep Ego integration to the rescue. Self-realization doesn't have to equal human 'vegetable'.

[Deep]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Deep Limiting belief. I've personally met plenty of enlightened people who live a normal Western lifestyle, have sex, have kids, go to work, etc.

Yes, because those people still have a healthy ego. I'm talking only about higher consciousness, not enlightenment. There's a difference between the two. It's possible to be enlightened and have an ego. Ramana Maharshi said it's NOT necessary to experience nirvikalpa samadhi to be considered enlightened. 

With enlightenment, a person still feels like they have a body. They FEEL like they're a human. During a kundalini rising, a person loses body consciousness, when the kundalini reaches the heart center. If someone stabs them, they wouldn't feel it. During nirvikalpa samadhi, a person FEELS like they're God. That's the difference between having an ego and not having an ego. @Leo-Tzu @Natasha

[Leo-Tzu]

Then what you call "higher consciousness" is a mental state of bliss where you're not human anymore (especially if you lost the ability to feel physical pain due to the damage of the body) . . . You can become that if you want, you can choose the middle way or you can go clubbing and working in the wall street . . . You do what works for you everything is fine as long as you know you're in a dreamlike reality or even without knowing that

 

Ps : the "problem" exists only if you choose the path you dont feel genuinely

Edited January 2, 2018 by Leo-Tzu

[snowleopard]

@Deep Even though it's a totally speculative moot point, if every individual human expression were in the 'higher' state you imagine, and no longer had any interest in lowly carnal pleasures, would they all just abstain from sex in view of the fact that the collective human experience would be extinct within one generation. I suppose mass artificial insemination would be an option, but somehow I suspect that the unique intimacy of the love-based relational experience would still have its appeal. There just wouldn't be some unnatural obsessive need for it to fill the void of a sense of something lacking. Even in a truly awakened state, wherein egoic identification is completely dispelled, there would still likely be a recognition of the unique role of relational experience, and the integral part that an apparent individual locus and expression of Awareness plays within it. Thus the dream doesn't end, it's just revealed to be what it actually is.

Edited January 2, 2018 by snowleopard

[Deep]

4 hours ago, Leo-Tzu said:

Then what you call "higher consciousness" is a mental state of bliss where you're not human anymore (especially if you lost the ability to feel physical pain due to the damage of the body) 

The body and mind are connected. When the mind destroyed is, the body can't be felt. It's hard to describe something that is outside of the mind. People who experienced it can't describe it.

 

4 hours ago, Leo-Tzu said:

You can become that if you want, you can choose the middle way or you can go clubbing and working in the wall street 

Yes, I agree. 

 

3 hours ago, snowleopard said:

@Deep Even though it's a totally speculative moot point, if every individual human expression were in the 'higher' state you imagine, and no longer had any interest in lowly carnal pleasures, would they all just abstain from sex in view of the fact that the collective human experience would be extinct within one generation. I suppose mass artificial insemination would be an option, but somehow I suspect that the unique intimacy of the love-based relational experience would still have its appeal. There just wouldn't be some unnatural obsessive need for it to fill the void of a sense of something lacking. Even in a truly awakened state, wherein egoic identification is completely dispelled, there would still likely be a recognition of the unique role of relational experience, and the integral part that an apparent individual locus and expression of Awareness plays within it. Thus the dream doesn't end, it's just revealed to be what it actually is.

I'm saying renunciation is a by product of higher consciousness. Some people experience higher consciousness and don't feel like engaging in carnal pleasures. They feel complete. 

[snowleopard]

@Deep Yes, agreed, not intending to contradict that ... Just asking, would they still abstain if it meant the extinction of the collective human experience? Again, just purely speculative -- not that it matters, since it ain't likely to come to pass.

[Nahm]

@Deep It’s a problem without patience, and patience isn’t needed with unconditional love. If they experienced God, they never saw any “mundane bullshit” again. It’s getting there that’s rough.

[Joseph Maynor]

The solution is to both be an ego and not be an ego, and to be as aware of reality as possible in the moment.  We can use culture as a way to make our awareness stronger, which is one reason why Enlightenment is difficult — because you need to be exposed to culture to see up underneath all culture.  This is why we have the paradox that Enlightenment is both extremely challenging and extremely simple at the same time.  

Edited January 3, 2018 by Joseph Maynor

[Deep]

4 hours ago, snowleopard said:

@Deep Yes, agreed, not intending to contradict that ... Just asking, would they still abstain if it meant the extinction of the collective human experience? 

Yes 

[pluto]

The higher the consciousness the more is understood. Everyone has their own path. You will not experience the highest levels of consciousness if you do not wish to do so or if it is not your path you will however know what to do and how to get by in any world because your level of understanding will be of a greater degree. It can be a challenge but i do not believe it can be a problem, as the more you understand the simpler life becomes.