Reading enlightenment books?

[Ayilton]

On 12/29/2017 at 7:49 PM, Girzo said:

That's a difference between having a broad understanding and going straight into the labor, that means meditating. And how do you develop the understanding? You read books, attend seminars, retreats, find teachers, trip on psychedelics. Do this for 3 years and 5 years of work will bring more benefit than 50 years of dabbling in meditation without a sense of direction.

I loved the story..... It got me motivated to read more  !  Understanding is key

[Echoes]

I asked a "Guru" (Shunyamurti) this question some time ago. This is what he answered: 

"Dear Seeker: Your question brings laughter and sighs. You want a quick intellectual fix from books, and it is not to be had. If you come to our ashram, you will see that we have a large library filled with books on these subjects. And what we have is a drop from an infinite ocean of books. If you were to approach this from an earthbound academic frame of reference, you would discard all the pop psychology and new age spirituality books. You would immerse yourself in serious studies of psychoanalytic theory, from Freud to Klein to Bion to Lacan (and a very long list of other names in the field). Then you would enter the larger field of post-structural philosophy, which takes issue with the psychoanalytic paradigms. You would begin to study Derrida and deconstruction, Whitehead and process theory, Deleuze and immanence theory; then you would have to integrate all that with quantum physics, biosemotics, psychosomatics, information theory, and complexity theory. And all of that would not even get you to chakra four. Then you would pore over books on immaterialism, archetypes, interdimensionality, and every variety of metaphysical mapping. You would need to study pure mathematics, fractal theory, relativity, the enigma of time. After mastering all that, you would have to return to Eastern philosophy and ponder the nuances of the paradoxical relationship between duality and non-duality. All this would take a number of years—or lifetimes. And you might have earned a doctorate along the way, but you would be no closer to Liberation.

In truth, you will get much more from spending a week with a liberated sage than years reading great books. What you will get from the sage that is decisive is not the new concepts that you may learn. What you will receive is the direct transmission of the Supreme Power. This will dissolve the ego and its censoring filters and enable you to access Truth and Infinite Love. You will realize that everything written in books is false. And you will realize that the world you thought you were living in is a delusion, as was your own imagined identity. You will be utterly enraptured by the divine light and the bliss of supernal love. Liberation is your Real nature. There is no benefit from projecting its secret into books. That is a detour that you can avoid. Your goal must be Silence, not more words. 

Namaste, Shunyamurti"

Edited January 4, 2018 by Echoes

[Leo Gura]

@Echoes Exactly. But the point is, you cannot know that until you've read at least 50 books.

The point is, you do not know which sages are truthworthy until you've read about 50 books. And even then, it's dicey. And that week of direct transmission of energy in the ashram will do you jack shit when you come back home. The wisdom learned from books at least sticks around in your head and gives you daily guidance.

[Echoes]

@Leo Gura Yea, I thought the same. And it is my impression from his videos that Shunyamurti is also a dedicated reader and has done serious study in this field. Maybe a case of "Don't look for what they say. Look for what they do"

I raised the same objection to the transmission of energy thing. I asked if it is not only a temporary glimpse like a psychedelic trip. This is what he answered:

"Your speculation is incorrect. Working with a liberated sage is precisely not like taking an entheogen, for many reasons, and can indeed result in permanent liberation. Of course the seeker must be ripe and ready, courageous and determined, truthful and open-hearted. An authentic relationship with the teacher must be formed. It is this that makes the difference. Not only can the guide help you peel away all the ego defenses, while in the ordinary waking state, but the sage can enable you to hold the vibrational frequency of Self realization for long enough to burn away the old tendencies, fantasies, and unconscious ego structures and agencies. The guru can implant within your heart a power that, even if it does not activate immediately, will set subtle processes of transformation in motion. Regarding your assertion that it is difficult to find such a sage, I would reply that when the student is ready, the teacher appears. Also, where there is a will, there is a way. Even if it involves a pilgrimage to another place, if it is a high enough priority, it will happen. Your spiritual destiny is in your own hands.

Namaste, Shunyamurti"

The devil's advocate would point out that he is saying this so that more people come to his Ashram  But I never met a "sage", so I don't know what impact it can have. 

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura I thought in one of your videos you said that thoughts and concepts are not "it". That "it" cannot be explained or understood. 

I've read over 50 "spiritual" books in my life. Most were self improvement or meditation type books. At the time, many resonated with me and seemed to provide insight. Yet in hindsight many seemed to promote the development of a stronger, "healthier" illusionary self image. . . Over the last couple years, I've had several glimpses into what appears to be nonduality, usually with the aid of psychedelics. Glimpses into that which cannot be explained with concepts and language.

I acknowledge I know very little of what is available in written and spoken word, including whole areas like epistemology. Yet, very very few people I encounter these days resonate with those glimpses. It seems like the mainstream stuff is oriented toward developing a healthier mindset to live a healthier life in a dualistic world. For example, 10 years ago "The Four Agreements" would have resonated with me. I would have discussed the book with others and integrated the teachings into my life to be a healthier person. Yet now, it seems like bullshit. It's purpose is to replace an old "unhealthy" illusionary self image with a new "healthy" illusionary self image. In the second half of the book, I got the sense that there was pressure to conform to popular paradigm's of self improvement.

Now, there are only a few people I feel a connection, such as Rupert Spira, Lisa Cairns 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Serotoninluv

[Leo Gura]

Reading books is not a replacement for spiritual work, it's only the beginning.

This whole debate is like a group of doctors debating: Should we read books? Or practice surgery?

Of course BOTH!

[cetus]

@Faceless A guru is not someone who teaches things. That is a misconception. A guru is a doorway. The same can be with books.

[Forestluv]

54 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Reading books is not a replacement for spiritual work, it's only the beginning.

This whole debate is like a group of doctors debating: Should we read books? Or practice surgery?

Of course BOTH!

I'm reminded of your blog post about a world with just stories. The story is one's reality and existence. We hold them dearly. If one catches a glimpse with no story and returns, the stories appear different. They're just stories in a dream world.

And I just wrote another story, which will soon go *poof* as another story enters. . .

[SOUL]

I haven't read even one "enlightenment book" and I have inner peace so books are optional.

[Faceless]

Knowledge in the psychological realm  has no place what so ever.  Unless you feel it does. Lol 

Its up to you ??‍♂️

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Faceless

[Faceless]

@cetus56

If you think you need a guru then maybe you do. It’s just I personally don’t except any authority psychologically. This  doesn’t mean I cant listen attentively to another. But one should be able to think for themselves. 

I’m sure you would agree??

Edited January 5, 2018 by Faceless