Do PUA bootcamps and/or dating coaches truly work?

[Hardkill]

So I've thought about paying for a dating coach or a PUA bootcamp one day, because I feel like I am in a very desperate position with very little to no options. How many people here have tried a PUA bootcamp and/or tried a dating coach before? Did any of them ensure any significant degree of success? If not then I don't want to have to waste my money on any it as I know that they are very expensive. I would appreciate it if a bunch of people who have done any of it before could let me know.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

@Hardkill Depends on what your expectations and sticking-points are.

If you are a newbie and having trouble with cold-approaching and opening consistently all night long, it should definitely help push you past that.

Learning how to approach consistently is one of the biggest problems people have. Bootcamps are designed to force you into tough situations and make you bolder.

[Hardkill]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Depends on what your expectations and sticking-points are.

If you are a newbie and having trouble with cold-approaching and opening consistently all night long, it should definitely help push you past that.

Learning how to approach consistently is one of the biggest problems people have. Bootcamps are designed to force you into tough situations and make you bolder.

Ok well, I don’t really have a problem with open many sets consistently myself even without a coach or a bootcamp. I’ve approach about 1,000 girls five or take in myself mostly all by myself (though there were a few times where I approached girl with a wingman). My trouble is more mid to end game and converting numbers and/or approaches to consistent dates and/or lays. I’ve gotten numbers and a few first dates from cold approaching, but that’s all I got. The lays, 2nd dates, 3rd dates, 4th dates, 5th dates, and 6th dates I got were all from girls I met online (except for a couple of girls whom I met at a previous gym I went to). Would a PUA bootcamp and/or good dating coach definitely help me convert more of my approaches to more lays and/or dates? If yes, then why? If no, then why?

Edited December 28, 2017 by Hardkill

[Spiral]

Not super familiar with this terms mid and end game in regards to pick up but I suppose it has do with the actual attraction part and making the girl want to have/ do something with you. 

I have a few friends of mine who do "pickup, at clubs mostly. They are kind of average, most of the time they fail but sometimes they succeed. What I've seen, what they do poorly is not so much the things they say but how they say it. There is no confidence, no sense of fun. It's mostly "I have to say these things in this order are to get you to like me". Very robotic so to speak. 

Try to focus on having a fun conversation instead of getting laid, with some flirting and so on.

[art]

@Leo Gura Have you done any daygame? Alines for with those who rather meditate all night than party   

[Socrates]

@Leo Gura Is cold approaching all night solo without any wings effective? How would you do it? 

I know you aren't a PUA pro but I would like to hear your perspective.

[Hardkill]

Yeah Leo, we would appreciate it if you could respond to these questions we all have.

[Hardkill]

On 12/27/2017 at 7:25 PM, Hardkill said:

Ok well, I don’t really have a problem with open many sets consistently myself even without a coach or a bootcamp. I’ve approach about 1,000 girls five or take in myself mostly all by myself (though there were a few times where I approached girl with a wingman). My trouble is more mid to end game and converting numbers and/or approaches to consistent dates and/or lays. I’ve gotten numbers and a few first dates from cold approaching, but that’s all I got. The lays, 2nd dates, 3rd dates, 4th dates, 5th dates, and 6th dates I got were all from girls I met online (except for a couple of girls whom I met at a previous gym I went to). Would a PUA bootcamp and/or good dating coach definitely help me convert more of my approaches to more lays and/or dates?

Damn. I wish I got more of an answer than a half-assed response from Leo. Please moderators or anyone with experience with coaching, help me out here.

[Richard Alpert]

15 hours ago, Hardkill said:

Damn. I wish I got more of an answer than a half-assed response from Leo. Please moderators or anyone with experience with coaching, help me out here.

Pick up coach can´t change youre personality. All he can do is give you hints, tricks and manipulation tactics.

You obviously dont have a problem with cold approach if u have approached 1000 times.

What are your motives? What do you look from pickup?

[Hardkill]

12 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

Pick up coach can´t change youre personality. All he can do is give you hints, tricks and manipulation tactics.

You obviously dont have a problem with cold approach if u have approached 1000 times.

What are your motives? What do you look from pickup?

  On 12/27/2017 at 7:10 PM, Leo Gura said:

@Hardkill Depends on what your expectations and sticking-points are.

If you are a newbie and having trouble with cold-approaching and opening consistently all night long, it should definitely help push you past that.

Learning how to approach consistently is one of the biggest problems people have. Bootcamps are designed to force you into tough situations and make you bolder.

Ok well, I don’t really have a problem with open many sets consistently myself even without a coach or a bootcamp. I’ve approach about 1,000 girls five or take in myself mostly all by myself (though there were a few times where I approached girl with a wingman). My trouble is more mid to end game and converting numbers and/or approaches to consistent dates and/or lays. I’ve gotten numbers and a few first dates from cold approaching, but that’s all I got. The lays, 2nd dates, 3rd dates, 4th dates, 5th dates, and 6th dates I got were all from girls I met online (except for a couple of girls whom I met at a previous gym I went to). Would a PUA bootcamp and/or good dating coach definitely help me convert more of my approaches to more lays and/or dates? If yes, then why? If no, then why?

[Big Valboski]

To answer your question, it does work, but it depends a lot on the coach and his methods. I did a bootcamp with a kick-ass PUA about a year ago that truly changed my life (and the life of other guys that I got to meet). But I also know people that basically wasted their money with other coaches. I also know some mediocre coaches myself.

As to how he worked, it included pushing me far beyond my comfort zone in day-game and night-game for a weekend, it was extremely intense mentally, the term bootcamp was very appropriate. All while giving constant feedback on the spot. To me that’s where the value was because I became aware of a million things I was doing wrong (and right) that I knew in theory but wasn’t able to be aware of in action. I feel like my game improved two years in two days.

The trick is that my coach was really good. He was able to identify my personal needs, what my weaknesses were. Also he was all about principles, not so much techniques, so the whole bootcamp was a true experience of personal development – become a better man. In my opinion, paying someone to teach you techquines or how to manipulate women is a waste of money because their results are quite limited, it’ll help you here and there but won’t help you become a real attractive man.

The problem is you can’t know if the coach is good beforehand. So the advice I give you is that you look for references of the coach before spending any money. Talk to his previous students and see what they say. But it does work if you choose the right coach, you won’t regret paying for it.

[Tron]

Yeah. End game is the tough part. I have been running into a lot of set backs with that and it's hurt my confidence a bit. I was putting so much pressue on myself that I decided to focus on other things a bit. 

[Hardkill]

On 1/3/2018 at 4:08 AM, Big Valboski said:

To answer your question, it does work, but it depends a lot on the coach and his methods. I did a bootcamp with a kick-ass PUA about a year ago that truly changed my life (and the life of other guys that I got to meet). But I also know people that basically wasted their money with other coaches. I also know some mediocre coaches myself.

As to how he worked, it included pushing me far beyond my comfort zone in day-game and night-game for a weekend, it was extremely intense mentally, the term bootcamp was very appropriate. All while giving constant feedback on the spot. To me that’s where the value was because I became aware of a million things I was doing wrong (and right) that I knew in theory but wasn’t able to be aware of in action. I feel like my game improved two years in two days.

The trick is that my coach was really good. He was able to identify my personal needs, what my weaknesses were. Also he was all about principles, not so much techniques, so the whole bootcamp was a true experience of personal development – become a better man. In my opinion, paying someone to teach you techquines or how to manipulate women is a waste of money because their results are quite limited, it’ll help you here and there but won’t help you become a real attractive man.

The problem is you can’t know if the coach is good beforehand. So the advice I give you is that you look for references of the coach before spending any money. Talk to his previous students and see what they say. But it does work if you choose the right coach, you won’t regret paying for it.

Okay, thank you very much. Yours was the best response.

[Angelo John Gage]

There's plenty of free content online. Read it. Find which style suits your actual personality. 

Then go out and try it. Get rejected several times. Get used to rejection. Don't care about rejection or validation from women and you'll start having fun and the nights will flow better.

I wouldn't go spend thousands on a coach.

I taught even thought I was ok with women, I wanted to learn how to get the exact ones I wanted. I've read several books and watch tons of online content, but two books I recommend are The Venusian Arts Handbook by Mystery and The Bad Boy Lifestyle, by Bad Boy. 

Mystery is this tall ass nerd who just went around getting rejecting and learning from his mistakes until he put his own system together. I'm sure he read books on human courtship and he translated that into PUA material. The Venusian Arts handbook by Mystery breaks it down amazingly; you'll understand how women think and how courtship works in the animal kingdom which also applies to us.  It will teach you about the game, and he approaches it in a scientific way, but the problem is you will then look at women as "targets" and think robotically. His idea is basically fake-it until you make-it. 

Bad Boy was a Croatian war veteran so he was more appealing to me, as his "game" was mostly focused on body language which is 97% of our communication and is way more effective then retarded shit these other people teach. All these other coaches are teach you  gimmicks and canned openers, which if you're nervous could help you break the ice, but if you have bad body language, you're fucked regardless.

David DeAngelo is another good one who has a ton of free video content online; his basic idea is be cocky and funny, which fits exactly with my true personality. 

My issue with women was my whole life I was programmed to put women on a pedestal. I had no problem making new guy friends as I was always busting their balls and making them laugh... Cocky/Funny was the real me, and I wasn't being that way with women; I was being "fake mr. nice guy."

So all this PUA stuff is basically the science of  human communication that they broke down and turned into courtship material. The issue is, people get obsessed with the material and more upset when shit fails. I've seen guys on forums report in with "field reports" like it was some kind of military campaign. You have to avoid this kind of thinking which you'll get sucked into because the ego will want to add more women under your belt and each interaction will be more pressure than necessary. Then you will also become ashamed of yourself knowing how to manipulate people with fake gimmicks so I would avoid using that shit and make up my own openers when I had to break the ice.

In the end, you just have to be your TRUE self and simply no longer give a fuck what woman think of you. Even if you're the greatest PUA on earth, you can still be rejected. Many of these PUAs are frauds and stage pick ups in front of their students or pay women to hang out at the seminars.

To summarize, treat women just like you' treat your guy friends; be playful, and funny...no human wouldn't be attracted to that. But if you're  creep that looks desperate for validation and NEEDS to get laid, the opposite will happen.

[Hardkill]

On 1/8/2018 at 2:22 PM, Angelo John Gage said:

There's plenty of free content online. Read it. Find which style suits your actual personality. 

Then go out and try it. Get rejected several times. Get used to rejection. Don't care about rejection or validation from women and you'll start having fun and the nights will flow better.

I wouldn't go spend thousands on a coach.

I taught even thought I was ok with women, I wanted to learn how to get the exact ones I wanted. I've read several books and watch tons of online content, but two books I recommend are The Venusian Arts Handbook by Mystery and The Bad Boy Lifestyle, by Bad Boy. 

Mystery is this tall ass nerd who just went around getting rejecting and learning from his mistakes until he put his own system together. I'm sure he read books on human courtship and he translated that into PUA material. The Venusian Arts handbook by Mystery breaks it down amazingly; you'll understand how women think and how courtship works in the animal kingdom which also applies to us.  It will teach you about the game, and he approaches it in a scientific way, but the problem is you will then look at women as "targets" and think robotically. His idea is basically fake-it until you make-it. 

Bad Boy was a Croatian war veteran so he was more appealing to me, as his "game" was mostly focused on body language which is 97% of our communication and is way more effective then retarded shit these other people teach. All these other coaches are teach you  gimmicks and canned openers, which if you're nervous could help you break the ice, but if you have bad body language, you're fucked regardless.

David DeAngelo is another good one who has a ton of free video content online; his basic idea is be cocky and funny, which fits exactly with my true personality. 

My issue with women was my whole life I was programmed to put women on a pedestal. I had no problem making new guy friends as I was always busting their balls and making them laugh... Cocky/Funny was the real me, and I wasn't being that way with women; I was being "fake mr. nice guy."

So all this PUA stuff is basically the science of  human communication that they broke down and turned into courtship material. The issue is, people get obsessed with the material and more upset when shit fails. I've seen guys on forums report in with "field reports" like it was some kind of military campaign. You have to avoid this kind of thinking which you'll get sucked into because the ego will want to add more women under your belt and each interaction will be more pressure than necessary. Then you will also become ashamed of yourself knowing how to manipulate people with fake gimmicks so I would avoid using that shit and make up my own openers when I had to break the ice.

In the end, you just have to be your TRUE self and simply no longer give a fuck what woman think of you. Even if you're the greatest PUA on earth, you can still be rejected. Many of these PUAs are frauds and stage pick ups in front of their students or pay women to hang out at the seminars.

To summarize, treat women just like you' treat your guy friends; be playful, and funny...no human wouldn't be attracted to that. But if you're  creep that looks desperate for validation and NEEDS to get laid, the opposite will happen.

Thanks for the response everyone.