Enlightenment and brain damage?

[egoless]

@Nahm can you give the solid proof without fluffy and “beautiful” metaphors why the brain is not prior to consciousness? Why are you so sure that consciousness “generates” the brain and not viseversa?

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[jse]

18 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Enlightenment and brain damage?

Aren't these two... the same? 

[Nahm]

@egoless proof isn’t accepted by paradigms. You have to transcend your assumptions. I would just get off the forum for five minutes and study quantum physics, or do the practices, or anything that helps you, if you are serious about your progress. (Nonfluffy version) 

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@egoless proof isn’t accepted by paradigms. You have to transcend your assumptions. I would just get off the forum for five minutes and study quantum physics, or do the practices, or anything that helps you, if you are serious about your progress. (Nonfluffy version) 

I don't hold any paradigms anymore. I am open minded. I am listening. What is your proof.

[Nahm]

@egoless research quantum physics. Everything is nothing. Empty, nothing. 

[egoless]

Just now, Nahm said:

@egoless research quantum physics. Everything is nothing. Empty, nothing. 

I know at least something about it. How do we know it is the final stop in the physics?

[egoless]

@Nahm

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

@egoless Ronald McDonald will tell you their hamburgers are good, psychiatrists will tell you their pills are good. The ego will tell you you’re a physical separate person. It’s up to you to do the work to transcend, it has nothing to do with me. I don’t even exist. You are not perceiving perceivers. To you, I am an illusion, and you’re asking about the truth. An illusion can’t tell you the truth, that is the nature of an illusion!

[egoless]

@Nahm Then why should I even try to listen to the illusion who supposed is trying to show the path to the Truth? 

You can't answer why the brain can't generate the consciousness. 

And if it does why brain can't be located in the infinite physical universe.

Why infinite physical universe can't be the strange loop.

So it does not matter in what we believe in the end maybe. There is a choice whether you believe in the consciousness-brain model or brain-consciousness. 

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

@egoless yes! The truth is not on a forum. It’s what you are. You’re right that you should not be looking to the illusion to show you the truth. I would suggest not reinforcing your paradigms with people who are in the same paradigm. 

[egoless]

@Nahm Why brain can't generate consciousness???? 

Oh wait a second... It can... Because nothing - fkin nothing opposes to that possibility... There are no proofs....

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[egoless]

@Nahm If the consciousness is not dependent on the brain how do you explain:

1) Someone can wake you up from the deep sleep.

2) You can't survive the extraction of the brain from your head. You become unconscious - Dead after your brain is severely damaged. Yes you have never experienced the death but at least you might have seen it first person with your own experience/perception.

3) Why don't your remember your earliest life when you were infant? There was some brain already but consciousness was not developed fully yet....

 

Moreover! the belief that consciousness is prior to matter and brain is necessary to the practice of self-inquiry and self-realization? If so then the whole thing is invalid; it is circular reasoning. Without this belief you would not even start practicing the self-inquiry..............................

@Leo Gura

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[snowleopard]

@egoless  What else is a physicalist scientist going to offer but a physicalist theory of consciousness?  They're no more valid than theories based on the primacy of consciousness.  Again, no-one, not the high priests of science, philosophy or spirituality, can give you an answer in lieu of self inquiry.  It is the only way to get beyond the theories.

[Shin]

12 minutes ago, egoless said:

@Nahm If the consciousness is not dependent on the brain how do you explain:

1) Someone can wake you up from the deep sleep.

2) You can't survive the extraction of the brain from your head. You become unconscious - Dead after your brain is severely damaged. Yes you have never experienced the death but at least you might have seen it first person with your own experience/perception.

3) Why don't your remember your earliest life when you were infant? There was some brain already but consciousness was not developed fully yet....

 

Moreover! the belief that consciousness is prior to matter and brain is necessary to the practice of self-inquiry and self-realization? If so then the whole thing is invalid; it is circular reasoning. Without this belief you would not even start practicing the self-inquiry..............................

@Leo Gura

1) Just like you can wake yourself of "reality".

2) That's a belief.

3) Why don't you remember your past lives ?

[egoless]

1 minute ago, Shin said:

1) Just like you can wake yourself of "reality".

2) That's a belief.

3) Why don't you remember your past lives ?

1) Now that's your belief. You have no proof of that.

2) Maybe. But this is the belief based on your perception and your experience. Which is the best you could ever have...

3) What if there are no any. What if you are only your current consciousness in your current brain and after the death you cease to exist? The past lives is also belief because you don't know that.

 

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, egoless said:

1) Now that's your belief. You have no proof of that.

2) Maybe. But this is the belief based on your perception and your experience. Which is the best you could ever have...

3) What if there are no any. What if you are only your current consciousness in your current brain and after the death you cease to exist? The past lives is also belief because you don't know that.

 

1) I frequently have some glimpses, so I do know, but that's not helpful to you.

2) How could it be an experience, according to you there is nothing after death, so you would never be able to experience it ...

3) What makes you think you have a past ?

Thoughts ...

 

Edited December 27, 2017 by Shin

[egoless]

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

1) I frequently have some glimpses, so I do know, but that's not helpful to you.

2) How could it be an experience, according to you there is nothing after death, so you would never be able to experience it ...

3) What makes you think you have a past ?

Thoughts ...

 

Maybe I don't talk much about my "glimpses" on this forum but I have had much as well. But I also realize that it just may be circular mistake. You start to believe in your glimpses because you constantly meditate and follow the teachings of non duality. You assume that your consciousness is not generated by your brain and based on that you begin to sel inquiry daily for years. What would happen if somebody was nagging over your ears that you are ugly daily for 10 years.... You would fking go insane and believe that you are....

Edited December 27, 2017 by egoless

[Nahm]

@egoless self inquiry is to discover what you are, not to prove something. It’s a process of transcending right & wrong, not a method to reinforce being right.   The example of listening to someone else is the opposite. What have you seen in your glimpses? 

[egoless]

Just now, Nahm said:

@egoless self inquiry is to discover what you are, not to prove something. It’s a process of transcending right & wrong, not a method to reinforce being right.   The example of listening to someone else is the opposite. What have you seen in your glimpses? 

During my self inquiry I have discovered that I am the consciousness - the Knowledge - the experience. But it all can be generated by the brain. I could find nothing against that in my self inquiry... I could really be the brain... damn it! 

[Nahm]

@egoless it’s ok in any case. Lots of people live perfectly happy lives “being just the brain” so to speak. There really is no right or wrong. ❤️ Opinions are for fun.