On Free Will

[Pointer]

@Angelo John Gage I just wanted to say that I find this discussion around stage red or blue in spiral dynamics, ego “selling” concepts of free will. I find the discussion uncomfortable and am grateful to have it given as such.

[Nahm]

@Pointer hell yeah it’s uncomfortable. The intention might not be to know what you are.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Pointer @Nahm C'mon gents, you need to be stronger than that!

Who knows what I would make them out of. If I could create them out of nothing, then they could be whatever I wanted. 

See for God to do any creating he would have to have a will to do it. And if we are fractions of God, what makes you think that we have none?

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage If you were God, All, Infinite, there would not be any other thing or no thing to use for anything. That’s an idea, not something in your experience. That’s a belief. The big game is a riddle that you yourself created, and the solution is always within arm’s reach for you. The only way to solve it, is to distinguish and let go of all beliefs, and analyze your own actual experience. It’s so hidden in plain sight, it’s sickening. 

[ragolp]

@Angelo John Gage who is it that has control?

[Angelo John Gage]

@Nahm @ragolp Yes I understand and have that experience but that doesn't negate free will.

I have control in this reality. 

Who is controlling your fingers now and typing the answers you are responding with? Is it God directly? If so, then who am I responding in the opposite? Not God? If I am not God, or if I am the Ego, how did I choose to oppose you without that will to do so?

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage If you were going to create the universe and experience it in absolute ignorant bliss, you’d have to cover up a lot of breadcrumbs. I’m not saying you do or don’t have control. I’m saying look at this:     “I have control in this reality”   . Look at it for ten minutes or so. It’s infinite. So it’ll come right out of it. Get all your beliefs and assumptions out of the way, and take a really good look at that phrase. 

[Pointer]

@Nahm @Angelo John Gage Intention is to know what you are per definition? Free will is finding that you have found yourself. All has free will, intending to be as it is? We live in a beautiful world.

[Angelo John Gage]

How does a robot find itself? @Pointer

[Edvard]

34 minutes ago, Angelo John Gage said:

How does a robot find itself? @Pointer

By reality being whatever happens; thoughts, emotions, the ego as all kinds of different illusions.

[Pointer]

@Angelo John Gage Well, a robot finds itself in many different ways. Best I can do is to say that it finds itself by having the properties of a robot, taking into account its parts and accounting for them as what gives it the intention to be a robot. 

 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Edvard @Pointer

A robot has no free will  because it is programmed and con only be a robot. It will never have self awareness  because you cannot program self awareness into something because that would be cause & effect which comes from its CPU.

We are not robots, we are Gods put in biological machines. However, some of us think we are the machine, others think we have no control of this machine. When the truth must be both; we do not control our autonomous systems, but we can control everything we are able to with intentional and focus. 

A rock has no will. A tree has no will. A tree does not decide to sheds its leaves for the fall and winter; it is totally at the mercy of the environment. It cannot analyze and make choices.

WE can. We are Gods in a bio-feedback machine which gives us information via the 5 senses that we can interpret and use to our advantage.

What would bet he evolutionary advantage of consciousnesses? Why would we evolve such a thing if it would only bring us an awareness in which we cause ourselves 99% of our own suffering.

Consciousness without free will serves no purpose if is it not to make decisions beyond instincts. 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Angelo John Gage

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage You didn’t experience evolution. 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Nahm Evolution created consciousness with an ego which allowed humans to do what exactly? Have the illusion to choose? What benefit would that be compared to all the other animals who are not 'self-aware' like we are and are able to go about jsut fine without mental anguish, global wars, self-harm, suicide, destroying their environment, taking drugs, torture one another... the list goes on.

 

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage evolution did not create consciousness, and you have no experience being an animal. 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Nahm I'm saying we evolved from whatever form we were until we became conscious with an ego; which I mean to say that our brains were given this survival software that allowed us to analyze and make sense of our environment, think in abstracts, reflect, and all that, which no other species can clearly do.

So what purpose was this ego if not to give us the ability how to choose to navigate this world? Of course when you remove the ego/self you will seem that you have no free will...which is the fallacy in the belief of no free will at all.

[SOUL]

23 minutes ago, Nahm said:

you have no experience being an animal.

[Nahm]

@Angelo John Gage I haven’t experienced evolution, nor not being conscious, or a brain, or software, nor have I experienced being another species, so i don’t have any answers for those beliefs. Not trying to be difficult.        It is true, nothing is hidden from you.    

[Nahm]

@SOUL that’s not what your mom said

[SOUL]

21 minutes ago, Angelo John Gage said:

So what purpose was this ego if not to give us the ability how to choose to navigate this world? Of course when you remove the ego/self you will seem that you have no free will...which is the fallacy in the belief of no free will at all.

In my experience it appears the ego is just one the many elements exerting influence over the willful intent and freeing awareness from the conditioning of the ego allows one to exercise freedom from it's conditioning of past identity. This doesn't suggest that just because our willful intent has the freedom to act in a modified behavior that we will not act on behalf of ego/self interests and if we do act on behalf of them doesn't imply we are forced to with no other choice but to, just that we do in that instance.

So this would say that if I see ego/self as an influence of conditioning I then see awakening awareness from it's influence as the 'freeing' part of willful intent which is the reverse of what you appear to be suggesting you view it as.