Liberalism and Enlightenment

[egoless]

I do not fully resonate with liberalism. Do you think it is necessary to become liberal to be Enlightened? For example I do not agree with some ideas of liberalism.

Edited December 21, 2017 by egoless

[Joseph Maynor]

Here's a model to use to clarify, if this is what you mean:

Psychological liberalism refers to a readiness to challenge authority, convention, and traditional values. In its most extreme form, psychological liberalism can even represent outright hostility toward rules, sympathy for law-breakers, and love of ambiguity, chaos, and disorder. Psychological conservatives prefer the security and stability brought by conformity to tradition. Psychological liberalism and conservatism are not identical to political affiliation, but certainly incline individuals toward certain political parties.

I got this language from that free Big 5 Personality Test.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[egoless]

@Joseph Maynor you are right, nowadays it became so vague. Anyone can claim to be a liberal nowadays. I mean the kind of liberals who lost the value for family, respect for the elderly people, are agitating and promoting homosexuality ( while pretending that they are just defending their rights ) and etc. I think you understand what I mean. I don’t judge these people and if they don’t threaten my freedom and rights I don’t really care about them. However, I disagree on these ideas of uncontrollable liberalism...

 

[DoubleYou]

Enlightenment transcends all -isms. Ideas and beliefs are not set in stone.

It's an interesting thing nowadays, you get sucked into one of two polarisations in politics without even being aware that you are slowly starting to change your beliefs to whatever your "team" is preaching. That's the real trap of modern politics. And an easy one to fall for. You're again just identifying with thought but on a larger scale.

I don't think it's an easy jump straight from conservatism to enlightenment though. Gotta pass that green stage somehow.  

[egoless]

@DoubleYou I’m neither conservator. I’m for the balance in everything. That’s how I view the reality. If you sum up everything you end up with 0 which is the perfect balance. I view world as an infinity both ways -/+

I think I already “rush” through the green stage when I became very compassionate and was vegan for 8 month. 

Edited December 21, 2017 by egoless

[egoless]

Very nice explanation indeed. What I also observed is that some people just wear masks of liberalism to cover up their egoistic desires under the “freedom in everything” philosophy. But as far as I know true liberalism is not only about that. 

[Nahm]

@egoless it’s not necccessary to do anything to become enlightened.

[Toby]

Check out Ken Wilber's map. Liberalism is stage orange. "Enlightenment" includes but is much much more than that. Just "liberalism" is limiting and I guess that is what you intuit.

[Markus]

Enlightenment has nothing to do with politics. You can be a liberal, conservative, libertarian, socialist, communist, or whatever else -ist. It's completely and utterly irrelevant.

[RichardY]

Anyone ever see the movie "Easy Rider"? watched it recently in a cinema in Basel. Basically 2 guys hit the road looking for spirtual enlightenment, but end up dead spiritually, and physically at the end of the movie. “You know Billy. We blew it.”

[Joseph Maynor]

"I mean the kind of liberals who lost the value for family, respect for the elderly people, are agitating and promoting homosexuality ( while pretending that they are just defending their rights ) and etc. I think you understand what I mean."

@egolessI don't see how or why these three traits need to be unified in one persona, namely the "liberal".   Can't the "conservative" possess all three of these traits too?   What does it mean to "agitate and promote homosexuality"?  

This sounds like some heavy stuff!  So -- Liberals hate family, are nasty to old people, and pretend that they support homosexuals when in fact they do not.   Where the hell did you pick this up!

You got some issues that you need to clean out of your psyche regarding this.  I know a lot of other people are choosing not to be as honest as I am choosing to be here.   They aren't helping you by stroking your ego.  Liberals are people too!  Haha.

Is there a liberal family member that you're gonna be seeing over Christmas that you're dreading?  Did the crazy liberal aunt cross-swords with you last year?

Edited December 23, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[egoless]

@Joseph Maynor joseph, I don’t know what got you so upset but I did not mean to hurt you in any ways. I did not mean that all liberals are like that either. If you read my comment more carefully you will see that. Regarding the homosexuality as I already mentioned I don’t have anything against them. Moreover I think every human being should have the equal rights. 

Stop coming up with your stupid examples. I don't know what you were butthurt about but watch your words now!

Edited December 24, 2017 by egoless

[RichardY]

Liberalism: I would have thought the historic equivalent were the Whigs(Disciplined, Puritanical, Church & Middle Class) in England, as opposed to the "Cavaliers"/Torys (Cavalier, Libertine, Landed Gentry). Liberalism a few laws that are enforced, leave society to establish rules.

Libertines: How can I get as much sex and booze as possible? 

Liberals: Anywhere the wind blows, doesn't really matter. To me.........

Conservative: I'm feeling good...... 

Progressive: Come together right now over me..............

[Leo Gura]

You can't help becoming more liberal as you move up the Spiral Dynamics stages.

Because conservativism is largely based on closedmindness and tribalism.

[Ian]

I'll give my personal experience for what it's worth, simply because it offers a different perspective to that of Leo.

In stage blue, I was your typical progressive, liberal person. I was all about gay rights, abortion, and tax-payer funded social policy etc. Quite honestly, I was bordering on communist. I continually sacrificed myself for the good of my socialist, atheist, dogmas. I caused myself a lot of unnecessary suffering, and eventually, I had enough.

In stage orange, I began to understand more about economics, business, marketing etc, but was still largely liberal.

However, stage green is the first stage that can actually start appreciating balance as a value. The universe presented me with conservative videos on Youtube. For the first time, I actually listened to the opposing polarity. It did not take long before I realized just how necessary both sides of the balance are.

In traditional 'pendulum' style, I then became fairly right wing (as a necessary over-adjustment) throughout stage green, and through most of stage yellow.

Nowadays, I can simply appreciate both sides of a dichotomy e.g. light/dark, order/chaos, left-wing/right-wing, liberal/conservative. All of these are perfect aspects of divinity, and both sides are required to maintain the balance. Either they both exist, or they both disappear and are transcended.

It's also worth pointing out that extreme communism and extreme fascism are basically the same thing. It's a strange loop!

Love and light

[egoless]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can't help becoming more liberal as you move up the Spiral Dynamics stages.

Because conservativism is largely based on closedmindness and tribalism.

Maybe, but shouldn’t you also leave it once you are out of green stage? Yellow and turquoise are free from all kinds of “isms”.