Why is Idealism Better than Dualism?

[Will Bigger]

***substance dualism; not dualism as in the opposite of non-duality***

I know that we can't explain consciousness under materialism, but can all the discoveries of science really be understood without a physical world?

For example, if everything is just consciousness, how do we explain how we only register sights when the light reflected by something hits our eye and the signal travels to our brains? 

I think idealism makes the most sense, but I'm on the fence.

also, what do most enlightened masters say in regard to this?

will I need to take psychedelics to really understand?

Edited December 20, 2017 by Will Bigger

[Nahm]

@Will Bigger so...light hits the eye and is coded and then decoded by a brain which produces the image of light inside a completely enclosed brain so it can be observed by the brain. And psychedelics alter this brain, which alters the former process of light.  Yep. Everything checks out here. Makes perfect sense. Idealism is a dualism. 

[snowleopard]

Presumably you're referring to substance dualism, the notion that mind and matter are categorically distinct and separate. The scientific problem with this view is that it is not compatible with most quantum investigation, and leaves unexplained many of the anomalies of the mind/body relationship, not to mention countless inexplicable paranormal and transpersonal events, which are simply dismissed as superstition, without any further empirical investigation.  The philosophical problem is that it is totally at odds with most serious metaphysical and spiritual inquiry, which point toward some version of nondual idealism. As for materialism, the notion that mind is an emergent epiphenomenon of matter, the problem is its inability to explain how this happens, along with its spiritually deprived paradigm that prioritizes material obsession/possession, and which has fostered an ethos of rampant consumerism and environmental degradation. 

Whether Idealism can be reconciled with current scientism seems doubtful, and it may indeed have to involve some significant change in the scientific paradigm, which wouldn't be the first such shift in perspective. And while all ontological models are ultimately, at best, true enough under the circumstances, surely there is the possibility of some improvement over the current status quo.

Edited December 20, 2017 by snowleopard

[Joseph Maynor]

Pick the story that resonates best with the Higher-Mind, but don’t cling to any story too tightly.  Technically all meanings are false.  Language and thoughts are entirely metaphorical.  So, yes we can work on our theories, but our expectation that we’re someday gonna find the true one is false.

“All Science starts as Philosophy and ends as Art” — Will Durant.  

You do stories, don’t let them do you.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[molosku]

On 2017-12-20 at 1:56 AM, Outer said:

It's pretty irrelevant, the physical world obviously is here and it interacts with consciousness. 

Everything one claims to be obviously true, needs a second, third and fourth look. The word obvious describes a thing  "that is so true that it thinking about the premises that make it up do not need to be evaluated, its just true"

You do realize that what ever you claim to be interracting with consciousness, is content within consciousness? You have sensations of the physical world, that are known in consciousness.

The evidence that a materialist claims to be evidence of matter, is first and foremost actually evidence of existance of perceptions. It still leaves the discussion of reality of matter open, because it does not objectively falsefy the notion of matter, just the evidence for it. I just yesterday wrote a long post about this, look it up if you will

I dont know man, all this confuses the hell out of me, to be honest. In unsure times like these, meditation as a being feels nice and simple my small brain does not compute the challenges of western philosophy. My current feeling about the metaphysics of matter is, that it simultaneoysly exists, and does not exist. I heard one weird skinny bald guy calling that a strangeloop, but I don't know about that fuzz. Could be a scam to sell something, I don't know.

Edited December 22, 2017 by molosku

[Leo Gura]

@Will Bigger You are underestimating the power of consciousness. It can literally dream up any kind of reality is wants. You are confusing perception with consciousness.

Idealism is just another name for nonduality.

Psychedelics would quickly show you this.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Joseph Maynor See, I believe there are absolute truths, or the Truth with the capital T. For one to say "no there is no truth with at capital T," is a claim of absolute truth in of itself.

For example, when someone says "We will never know all things" it's a true statement as it is impossible, thus absolutely true. 

Such a statement like " all meanings are false" is an absolute one.

So if there are absolute truths, there may be other absolute things? The Absolute Infinity in of itself is absolute, and could be composed of infinite absolute things... this is absolutely  a mind fuck lol 

[Faceless]

Probably should inquire into what we mean by truth...What is truth? 

[Angelo John Gage]

Truth is what is fact.

my birthday year = 1984

2 + 2 = 4

Flowers are not cars.

We are writing in English and not Arabic.

It is an observation that of what is self-evident and is immutable; that, irrespective of the observer, does not change.

Thus someone who cannot see the truth, does not actually know it.

[Leo Gura]

@Angelo John Gage The truth is, you invented all those "facts"

 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Leo Gura 

Well I didn't invent them, at least personally... lol

But let's look at this: Which of these "facts" that I did not invent are untrue? You could not say I was't born in 1984; nor could you say we are writing in Arabic and not English; nor could you say flowers are cars; nor that 2 + 2 =/= 4, because if you did, you would be saying things that are false.

Now if you were to say " Well Angelo, what I mean as 'you' is God or everyone else, since we are all the same, and I am you, and you are me etc"... well then, we cannot say that inventions of God are fake or false; unless we deny the reality of these things by claiming they are made up by us, which is still God lol... see how this goes?

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Angelo John Gage

[Leo Gura]

@Angelo John Gage All of that is concept. A story within a dream.

Concept-land is not Truth, it's "relative truth" instead.

[Angelo John Gage]

@Leo Gura Well I am new to this forum, so let me clarify, I am not a materialist and I agree with most of everything you taught in your videos; except free will, which is another topic.

I am a Deist; but was very moved by your video of Absolute Infinity.  I take it that everyone here who follows your work and believes that we are God and God is all are actually panentheists, which is a very interesting position that has gained my attention recently. 

Aside from that, I am well aware of your position in regards to this reality; but what I am saying, even if these things were all concepts, as you stated, since we cannot grab '1984' or put Arabic in our hands, that does not mean they were not created by God (us) in this dream, which is the realist dream I've ever seen lol.

BTW speaking of dreams Leo, I had requested a video that I would like to see you do about dreams; what they actually are; are they actually happening as every other event etc... 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Angelo John Gage

[Bebop]

22 minutes ago, Angelo John Gage said:

I am not a materialist and I agree with most of everything you taught in your videos; except free will, which is another topic.

As someone who used to hold those beliefs, turns out I was dead wrong.

Psychedelics will prove otherwise. 

[Angelo John Gage]

@Bebop Indeed. DMT will show you otherwise

[Joseph Maynor]

6 hours ago, Angelo John Gage said:

@Joseph Maynor See, I believe there are absolute truths, or the Truth with the capital T. For one to say "no there is no truth with at capital T," is a claim of absolute truth in of itself.

For example, when someone says "We will never know all things" it's a true statement as it is impossible, thus absolutely true. 

Such a statement like " all meanings are false" is an absolute one.

So if there are absolute truths, there may be other absolute things? The Absolute Infinity in of itself is absolute, and could be composed of infinite absolute things... this is absolutely  a mind fuck lol 

You gotta be able to transcend the Rationalist Paradigm.  I'm not operating from the Rationalist Paradigm.  

Watch this video.

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Angelo John Gage]

@Joseph Maynor Ah I have yet to see this one lol.

It will be interesting seeing Leo using rational arguments against rationality, and having us understand them rationally.

But I'm always open-minded to new things... How do you guys think I got here haha.

I'll get back to you later on this. Love this forum and all the bright minds in here...finally people to learn from.

[Faceless]

Seems like truth in the ultimate sense is only when the center is not. Truth is when subjectivity ceases. Before the movement of thought enters in and distorts what is and projects an abstraction.

Basically take “yourself” out of the picture and whatever is left is truth lol 

 

[Bebop]

8 hours ago, Angelo John Gage said:

@Bebop Indeed. DMT will show you otherwise

Yes 5 meo dmt would definitely show you free will is an illusion. My point was claiming to not be a materialist and still believing in free will is a contradictory statement that you aren't conscious of yet.

[Angelo John Gage]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

You gotta be able to transcend the Rationalist Paradigm.  I'm not operating from the Rationalist Paradigm.  

Watch this video.

 

Watch this last night. Great video. 

But is it not an assumption that the universe is not rational? (playing devils advocate because I don't think it is either). Even us stating it is a-rational is something we made up to describe it from a human perspective.

But if it is true, which I also agree that it is a-rational, than that statement would be what I call the Ultimate Truth, as it explains best what reality actually IS or how it seems to "act". 

So what I got from this video is that anything we come up with is simply a concept of the what we experiences, but is not the TRUTH in of itself. As Leo brought up in NLP, which I learned myself, "The Map is not the Territory"...So our concepts are not the Truth, but representative of it whether in language or symbols....But like I stated before, the Truth to me is something that is immutable; so a statement such as "The map is not the territory"  is in fact, an absolute truth. See what I mean?