Did you study religions?

[Shanmugam]

@Monkey-man Can't really say that...  ... When it comes to Sadhguru, I have said that because of a lot of reasons that I have already explained in the link  https://nellaishanmugam.wordpress.com/2017/12/12/why-do-i-criticize-sadhguru-jaggi-vasudev/ .

And also in the following links:

 https://www.quora.com/Is-Sadhguru-a-hoax-How-did-he-heal-his-asthma-and-ankle-fracture-in-an-hour-09-15/answer/Shanmugam-P-12

https://www.quora.com/Is-Sadghuru-Jagi-Vasudev-another-scam/answer/Shanmugam-P-12

Sadhguru is a man of social service, general life advice and a person who makes a lot of extraordinary claims without proving even a single thing till date.. But he never really gives much useful advice for enlightenment itself. But when he just repeats what he read from Osho's books, it is useful. The problem is, he mixes it with his own ideas and people cannot discriminate.

And I have seen a lot of inconsistencies and obvious loopholes in many things he said, which has shown me without a doubt that he is lying a lot. Apart from these observations, I have nothing against him. He is a talented guy and business minded.

When it comes to other gurus, I cannot say such a thing since I have not known anybody else as much as I know about Sadhguru, Osho, Ramana Maharshi, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and a few others... I have also read Eckart Tolle's books and I have found his teachings direct and certainly useful when it comes to enlightenment. I have not seen a problem with anybody else other than Sadhguru. If you enjoy listening to him just for entertainment, there is no problem. But if anyone is looking for spiritual enlightenment, I can say very confidently that his talks would distract you from the path and give you many wrong ideas about enlightenment.

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by Shanmugam

[egoless]

@Shanmugam Why do you think Leo disagrees with you? I think Leo also observed Sadhguru closely. Maybe there are really deep topics that seems impossible to you?

[Shanmugam]

@egoless Let me repeat what I said in another post:

 I am not sure how many people in this forum have actually visited his ashram regularly (every week), done the courses, bought expensive consecrated spaces, read a lot of his books, videos and also attended his satsangs. But I have done it all.

I live in Tamilnadu. Do you know where it is? 

The state in red is Tamil Nadu...

Do you know where Sadhguru's Ashram is? It is in Coimbatore, a city in Tamil Nadu.. I lived in Coimbatore for two years..

I am not saying what I am saying after I read just a book by Sadhguru. I am saying what I am saying after I have been associated with him and the ashram for 14 years...

Do you know how long is 14 years?

Anyway, I am not ready to argue with you... I know people can be easily fooled by him. I would have said what Leo said just two years ago.. If you had asked me about Sadhguru before 5 years, I would have said everything Leo said, word by word...

 

 

 

[egoless]

@Shanmugam I’m not trying to argue with you mate. I’m just curious. How is your life right now? Are you 100% sure in you Truth? Or you still assume that you may be mistaken. I mean your Enlightenment and Enlightenment notion in general. Is it real? How are you sure that it is not just chemistry change in the brain.

[Shanmugam]

@egoless  If I have some idea about the truth, I may be mistaken... But I don't have an 'idea' about the truth... It is living reality.. The moment I search for words to describe how evident it is, I can't find words at all. I can't even find a 'me' or 'I'... Thats why I don't say 'i am enlightened'''. That is the weirdest thing to say, at least for me...

The whole concept consisting  of 'enlightenment', a seeker of enlightenment, a path to enlightenment and attaining enlightenment is a joke and a lie told to people for good reasons.. It is in the context of this lie, authentic gurus say 'I am enlightened'... It is just to help people.

The only reason why anyone would get deluded in thinking he is enlightened (when he is actually not), is because he wants to show him in a positive light to others or to even himself.. Because, the ego of a seeker actually sees an 'enlightened' state as an ideal state to reach, which the seeker himself might not be consciously aware of.  But since the whole process of seeking itself is to completely dis-identify with the ego, ego will somehow try to enter through backdoor and reassert its existence.. And the best way that it can do this job is to make the person believe that he is enlightened. For the ego, enlightenment is a status to attain. Does any of this make sense to you?

When I see the posts you have made in some of the threads, I wonder if you have actually understood what enlightenment is all about or not...So, tell me, how would you describe enlightenment in your own words.. And tell me why you are looking for it..

[stevegan928]

On 12/19/2017 at 4:11 PM, Highest said:

Other than that, it's mind-made nonsense.

religious texts are all metaphorical, to believe otherwise is misinterpretation. most preaches misinterpret their own religion. Jordan Paterson's Biblical lecture series my open your mind a bit regarding religion. 

[Akim]

5 hours ago, stevegan928 said:

religious texts are all metaphorical, to believe otherwise is misinterpretation. most preaches misinterpret their own religion. Jordan Paterson's Biblical lecture series my open your mind a bit regarding religion. 

Jordan Peterson is great, I highly recommend him too. Also maps of meaning course.

I think the problem is that everything is metaphorical. Modern western rational, so to speak, understanding of the world is sipping into religion too and destroying it. Some priests try to explain Bible stories in modern scientific terms, trying to find contradictions and errors in science as a prove that religious stories are literally correct in modern understanding of the world. But that modern understanding with metaphors such as mater, energy, gravity, fields, space, time are a bunch of stories themselves and often different branches of physics have different somewhat contradicting stories. Scientific stories are deadly powerful when interacting with the world if you know what story to use when, Euclid geometry, classical mechanics or thermodynamics. Similarly religious stories can be very powerful to live a better life, but you have to know how to apply them. It is not just word games, if a person sincerely tries to live by religious stories, then his world changes, and changes can be so great that any rational arguments, mathematical scribblings and carbon dating of the earth will mean nothing to convince a person who experienced such life transformation.

[Joseph Maynor]

I was religious for about a year before I started to have enlightenment experiences.  I now consider my move from athiest to theist as a step in my awakening process.  Then I lost the theism part when I started to shed my beliefs.  But theism was a step towards mysticism for me.  It was a symptom of the Ego breaking down and the Shadow integrating with the Ego.  That was happening over the course of about a year and a half for me. Then I started to transcend the Ego entirely, which is where my theism went bye-bye on its own.

I’ve studied Judaism, Christianity, and Islam pretty deeply.  I’ve also studied Hinduism, Chinese Folk Religion, and Buddhism.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Akim]

@Joseph Maynor I checked your journal, wow, so much great content. You also mention Sabbath, which is an example of great things you can find in traditional religions. Regarding theism what do you mean by it?

A type of religious system like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ?

Some weak claim like "there are beings which are higher order and incomprehensibly, for humans, more advanced that humans"?

Some strong claim like "world is governed by all powerful, all loving, all knowing God. Everything that you think is bad for you is actually for your betterment in the long run" ?

Or something else?

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Akim said:

@Joseph Maynor I checked your journal, wow, so much great content. You also mention Sabbath, which is an example of great things you can find in traditional religions. Regarding theism what do you mean by it?

A type of religious system like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam ?

Some weak claim like "there are beings which are higher order and incomprehensibly, for humans, more advanced that humans"?

Some strong claim like "world is governed by all powerful, all loving, all knowing God. Everything that you think is bad for you is actually for your betterment in the long run" ?

Or something else?

Theism means belief in a personal god or gods.

I believed in a God that was working with me like a team member.  More accurately, I was a worker-bee of God.  God was actually my intuition that the Mind was making seem like a separate entity.  So, my intuition is still there, but the stories are not.  So, in a sense, I'm still religious, I just believe that God is not separate from myself now.  So, my religion evolved to mysticism.  God was never separate from me -- that was a false belief.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Akim]

10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Theism means belief in a personal god or gods.

I believed in a God that was working with me like a team member.  More accurately, I was a worker-bee of God.  God was actually my intuition that the Mind was making seem like a separate entity.  So, my intuition is still there, but the stories are not.  So, in a sense, I'm still religious, I just believe that God is not separate from myself now.  So, my religion evolved to mysticism.  God was never separate from me -- that was a false belief.

I think personal relationship can have its place. Like for example I am writing that as if talking to a separate entity, but there is probably no ultimate separation between us, though for me it is just logical conclusion not real understanding. As Jordan Peterson said, humans are the most complex things we interact with, we evolved mostly to do that so to use that machinery to relate to a being as a whole makes a lot of sense.