"Fact based" Sam Harris irrational?

[Geromekevin]

Hi everyone

I always liked Sam Harris' approach to spirituality and pretty much every other topic in general. His attempt to use logic always resonated with me.

Some episodes ago Sam Harris interviewed Scott Adams in his podcast. They where talking about Trump.

Now some episodes later Sam talked with his guest about Scott again. Scott saw this and analyzed their dialogue about him.

Watch this:

It will show you, that Sam Harris is, just like anybody else in the world, not using facts or logic.

Humans can't know reality and the mechanics of the human mind beautifully demonstrated

[Leo Gura]

Lol, Scott Adams critcizing Sam Harris is like Harvey Weinstein criticizing Al Franken.

But also -- of course -- rationality is highly irrational. How could you not expect such an artificial duality to collapse?

[aurum]

@Geromekevin

I liked Sam Harris a lot too in the past. Coming from the scientific, rational paradigm of the world, he was kind of like my "bridge" into spiritual topics because I respected his opinion as a scientist.

But I don't read or listen to Sam anymore.

One of the bizarre things that Jed McKenna pointed out about this journey is that you sometimes quickly find yourself "surpassing" your teachers. I consider them more like vehicles that got me from point A to B than gurus who got it all figured out.

[Geromekevin]

@Leo Gura Scott defines (amongst other things) words like "lol", "haha" and "omg" as tells for cognitive dissonance. Furthermore he says if you use analogy instead of reason, you just left the realm of reason. In his words, you just "spontaneously hallucinated a new reality to protect your world view."

Which is why I love Scott. He is the best human I have every seen at predicting. And I love models that predict, because it is easy to make a model "fit" the past, but it is hard to create a model that predicts.
And the rationalist / materialist part in me likes to think models which are able to predict are superior

I wouldn't underestimate Scott, because he is super smart and you might experience a major mind fuck otherwise.

I didn't expect Sam talking behind Scott's back about him on a podcast. But I would have bet good money on Scott if the two where to argue about any topic. In other words, I expected Scott to correct Sam

@aurum I know what you mean. I personally feel that a lot!

Even in Leo's new videos I sometimes arrogantly think to myself "stupid Leo, he is in such a big hallucination". I watch his videos anyways, because I want to stay open minded and have as much diverse input as I can.

In the end  I always remind myself that humans can't now the truth (or is that false too and we can now?), so there is no way to know, if you surpass someone or not.

[aurum]

9 hours ago, Geromekevin said:

In the end  I always remind myself that humans can't now the truth (or is that false too and we can now?), so there is no way to know, if you surpass someone or not.

Keep seekig and you’ll find out ?

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Geromekevin said:

Scott defines (amongst other things) words like "lol", "haha" and "omg" as tells for cognitive dissonance. Furthermore he says if you use analogy instead of reason, you just left the realm of reason. In his words, you just "spontaneously hallucinated a new reality to protect your world view."

Which is why I love Scott. He is the best human I have every seen at predicting. And I love models that predict, because it is easy to make a model "fit" the past, but it is hard to create a model that predicts.
And the rationalist / materialist part in me likes to think models which are able to predict are superior

I wouldn't underestimate Scott, because he is super smart and you might experience a major mind fuck otherwise.

Scott is one of the most deluded thinkers I have ever heard speak.

The self-appointed master of reason has been hoisted by his own petard.

Oh the irony...

When you hear people speaking of "reason", run for the hills. Reason is the #1 tool of the ego. Reason has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

The mental gymnastics that Scott goes through to backwards-rationalize Trump, are truly astounding. And Sam is right to call him out on his shit.

[DnoReally]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Scott is one of the most deluded thinkers I have ever heard speak.

The self-appointed master of reason has been hoisted by his own petard.

Oh the irony...

When you hear people speaking of "reason", run for the hills. Reason is the #1 tool of the ego. Reason has absolutely nothing to do with truth.

The mental gymnastics that Scott goes through to backwards-rationalize Trump, are truly astounding. And Sam is right to call him out on his shit.

this

[Faceless]

Reason without understanding of the mind and it’s conditioning is the problem. Reason is deceiving without inquiry into thought and understanding of the structure of the ego. 

The intellect is a tool. If we don’t read the manuel on that tool comes self deception, ignorance, contradiction, and hypocrisy. 

Truth is perception/ insight. 

[Geromekevin]

@Leo Gura  In my world view, Scott is one of the few people who does not backwards rationalize. He predicted events, while all others fit their explanations after the events happened. For me that is not backwards rationalizing. And if you watch the two videos (Sam's Podcast and Scott's commentary) you might come to the conclusion that Scott called Sam out on his bullshit, because Scott's arguments were better.

As a studied physicist it's hard for me to let go of reason, because it works so well. That's why I follow you Leo (and others more spiritual teachers) to escape the echo chamber.

@Faceless That again premises that humans can now the truth, which I'm not sure if that's possible.  And if we can, can you really rule out that perception / insight is deceived and reason / logic leads to truth?

[Faceless]

 

@Geromekevin...??

Insight and total perception of the movement of the intellect leads to truth. In this perception truth is not yours or mine but it’s own movment. Truth is only when you and I are not, and the observation is free of subjective influence. Only a capacity to investigate objectively without any implications of the center interfering can lead one in the direction of what is true. 

That very difficulty to let go of logic is its limit. Because that logic is influenced by and clings to the preferences, bias, prejudices, and conclusions that have been handed down through academic/social conditiong and established principles.  As a studied physicist this understanding of thought “intellect” is of great importance. I’m not a scientist but I appreciate and implement a scientific mind in the inquiry into myself “thought/knowledge”. To use logic, reason, and rationality with the total perception/insight as a foundation is fundamental and essential in a mind that inquires, investigates, and explores. 

 

“But to discover for oneself what is true and what is false, and to see the truth in the false, is to let that truth operate and bring forth its own action.”            Jk&DB               

 

This is insight/perception.

Hope this sparks an interest in the limits of logic/reason/intellect, when not understood in its very nature. 

Thanks for sharing friend??

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Faceless