Facing The Fear Of Psychedelic Madness - Understanding A Trip

[Lauritz]

I am at this point where I want to take a trip again. My last real trip was four years ago and it was that typical "bad"-trip. Were you think you have gone mad, going down thought loops that go something like this: "OMG, now I have taken too much, Now I will be in here forever. No that is bullshit, you are alright." Then realising a second later in shock that this thought that tries to calm you down is just part of this madness spiral and wont stop it from happening. And from there it only will get worse. 

I had that happening twice. First on mushrooms and then on orally ingested marihuana. 

 

This attempt of trying to understand the trip while it is happening seems to be counter-productive. Letting go also means letting go of this need to understand.

My questions: 
Is anyone here who has had this fear of psychedelic madness and has faced it and seen through it?
Was it as bad again, when you consciously faced it again? 

My next trip will be on AL-LAD and it should have less madness in it  But I know that eventually I will have to overcome it, if I want to grow. It already has become too big of an obstacle in my mind. My concern is that these madness trips of endless thought-loops are just somehow damaging to the brain. 

Compared to four years ago I now have a much deeper understanding of reality and was able to integrate those trips quite well thanks to what I learned from @Leo Gura. So "in theory" that should help while tripping. But understanding everything eventually also has to come full circle, right?

 

[Omni]

I'd say you're definitely now more well equipped, and more stable-minded than before - and SHOULD help you stay calm and relaxed. But this is not guaranteed, and I am no doctor.

However, keep in mind that the mood prior to your lift-off as well as the environment and people you are with will have a significant impact on how the rest of the trip will play out. (I don't recommend doing psychedelics with other people - but some people prefer/need a trip-sitter and that is okay.)

Unfortunately I cannot give you advice on how to break free of the vicious loops of tripping because for whatever reason that it may be, I have a very sturdy mind when it comes to any substance (meaning looping, loss of memory, uncontrollable reactions, etc very rarely occur), no matter what it is. (Prescription meds, Alcohol, Weed, Psilocybin mushrooms, LSD or DMT) This is a double edged sword at times - as it takes more for the average effect to equate to that of a typical person's.

What I can say is that looping will not damage your brain, it is purely psychological and the worry stems from the ego's fear.

When I took DMT for the first time with my friend, I was the first one to trip. When I came back I told him that it felt like I died - his reaction was hilarious. And his skepticism skyrocketed, it took a bit of convincing and down-playing to persuade him to take his dose.

By the time he came back, the concept of what I meant by dying was completely understood and was no longer a fear of his.

 

I wish you the best of luck brother.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Omni

[Lauritz]

7 minutes ago, Omni said:

However, keep in mind that the mood prior to your lift-off as well as the environment and people you are with will have a significant impact on how the rest of the trip will play out. (I don't recommend doing psychedelics with other people - but some people prefer/need a trip-sitter and that is okay.)

 

At this moment I feel that I need a tripsitter next time. As I called my parents and even the police last time this panic attack hit me. The police was very calm and understanding though. But they still brought me to the hospital. I am very cautious because of that  

I also feel mentally much better prepared now. Also my meditation practice since then should help.

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, Lauritz said:

At this moment I feel that I need a tripsitter next time. As I called my parents and even the police last time this panic attack hit me. The police was very calm and understanding though. But they still brought me to the hospital. I am very cautious because of that  

I also feel mentally much better prepared now. Also my meditation practice since then should help.

That's totally fine man, I don't want this to seem like a lecture you, as I know you can think for yourself - though I also don't want you to leave this trip with more regrets.

But remind whoever that may be to not interfere too much with the trip, and remember yourself not to do too much external interaction, otherwise you will certainly be likely to blow the powerful impact that they can have. Let them have an activity that they can do to pass the time while allowing you to bask in the experience without distracting you while on the trip.

Let them be there only as guidance for you back to a safe and stable place if necessary, as well as a friendly reminder that the problems you may think you're experiencing are simply your mind over-thinking the situation.

Safe travels.

[Nahm]

@Lauritz a SOBER trip sitter, and start with small dose and build up over a few weeks or so. ??

[Lauritz]

@Nahm Yes that is my plan. I already started low with AL-LAD.

30mcg and 60mcg so far. The effects were noticeable when I meditated or focused on the music. But were below what I would call a trip.

 

[Nahm]

@Lauritz awesome! Keep in mind (imo) there’s no such thing as a bad trip. We don’t see what we want, until we’ve seen what we need. Psychedelics are funny that way, aren’t they?

[snowleopard]

I can't speak specifically about panic attacks while using psychedelics -- having only ever tried mescaline -- but I did go through a panic attack phase when younger, for which I was prescribed tranquilizers ... of course just a band-aid solution. The real solution was delving into some shadow issues, and the fear related to those issues, most especially the fear of death. So it doesn't seem that psychedelics are going to bypass that stuff. Indeed, as @Nahm points out, being the plant medicines that they are, they may actually be revealing exactly what needs to be revealed, and the lesson that facing this fear can't be avoided indefinitely. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by snowleopard

[Lauritz]

@snowleopard @Nahm

That is good advice. I sometimes forget that it is good to have encountered my fears. Only that way more freedom is gained. 

Part of me is somewhat hoping to face that fear again to see what it actually was that frightened me. So that I can come out of the experience with the feeling of having grown from it. 

[Nahm]

@Lauritz you will.  ❤️We have to look really closely at our fears, so we can see we’re making them up! Godspeed brutha.

[phoenix666]

your fears literally dissolve as you look them into the eye. you seem much more mature <3 face what you need to face and love whatever the psychedelics dig up. AL-LAD also seemed more gentle and clean than shrooms, at least in my experience. let us know, would love to read about your experience <3

[Leo Gura]

@Lauritz There's nothing as mad as the belief that objective reality exists.

 

[Quader]

If you encounter fear, meet it with an inquisitive nature. Remember to "save some fear for tomorrow" because you cannot "conquer" fear, it simply is experienced or not. 

[Lauritz]

@phoenix666 I agree and I will make sure to report on my experience afterwards.

@Leo Gura so if there is true madness in this apparent sanity than maybe I can expect to find true sanity within apparent madness  

[phoenix666]

11 minutes ago, Lauritz said:

 

so if there is true madness in this apparent sanity than maybe I can expect to find true sanity within apparent madness  

sanity and madness go full cycle and actually become one I experienced that on shrooms. it was both horrifying and, after surrendering, one of the most wonderful moments of my life <3

[Lauritz]

15 minutes ago, phoenix666 said:

sanity and madness go full cycle and actually become one I experienced that on shrooms. it was both horrifying and, after surrendering, one of the most wonderful moments of my life <3

Oh man I definitely want to experience this  

I remember feeling incredible for weeks after the trips. The contrast of my normal everyday life to this madness was just too good. 

I can now see how understanding and knowledge might help me during the experience. In my experience there are always at least phases were one can think relatively clearly. And in those times it probably helps to think "surrender" and "I expected this" instead of what I did, thinking "omg, will this ever end, I need help,...".

[JustinS]

I'd recommend doing lots and lots of strong determination sitting meditation. At least 20 hours/month before the trip. It will help be internally grounded. Especially during strong determination, when shit hits the fan and you want to look away from the un-comfortableness, you're just aware and still. Taking this into your trip will help tons, paradoxically, in letting go. 

[Faceless]

Objective reality is very contradicting. Might want to inquire into that friend 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just keep an open mind and resign yourself to whatever happens.  Relax and don't tense up your body.

[Stevo]

On 12/16/2017 at 11:00 AM, phoenix666 said:

your fears literally dissolve as you look them into the eye. you seem much more mature <3 face what you need to face and love whatever the psychedelics dig up. AL-LAD also seemed more gentle and clean than shrooms, at least in my experience. let us know, would love to read about your experience <3

I like that part about dissolving fears.  I wrote it down on a post-it note.  I'm going to revise it to say something like "Above all, I seek introspection and truth.  I seek out the things I am afraid to face and play with them."