Government based on spiral dynamics!?

[Mohamad Tahmas]

So the question here if Trump and most of the leaders are on orange stage or any stage (Below Yellow) then why aren't the higher stages in control?. Or are they in control behind the scenes? And if they're not how could we put them in the leading position? And most importantly is life going to be better with a leader on the Turquoise stage for example takes control?

[Faceless]

Obvious the governments influence is based on spiral dynamics or something similar...Feeding off the people with there general but limited understanding of the psyche.. And no No life will not be better with any type of legislative authority appointed. We all individually have to change to make a dramatic change for the better on our society and the world. 

We are all responsible for this reality which we have created and we can change it.

Edited December 14, 2017 by Faceless

[Leo Gura]

@Mohamad Tahmas Trump isn't merely Orange, he's way down at Red.

In a democracy how can you have 1% (Yellow) in power over the other 99% (below Yellow)? You can't. The politicians must pander to and reflect the average consciousness of the voters. In America, the average consciousness of the voter is Red/Blue/Orange, so that's mostly the only kind of leaders you will get.

If a Yellow or above leader came into power, he would be demonized and hated by 90% of the population because he wouldn't reflect their values.

You can see that sorta happened with Obama. Stage Red/Blue people absolutely hated him. Including Trump.

If a Turquoise leader came in control, he would be killed. Examples:

• Jesus
• Gandhi
• MLK
• JFK (he wasn't anywhere near Turquoise, but still)
• Robert Kennedy (also not Turquoise, but still)

For a leader to be effective, he must be only 1 step above his followers. Any more than that, and they will revolt against him. The problem with Trump is that he is actually 1 step below his followers, which is why we see the disaster unfolding today.

[Edvard]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

@Mohamad Tahmas Trump isn't merely Orange, he's way down at Red.

In a democracy how can you have 1% (Yellow) in power over the other 99% (below Yellow)? You can't. The politicians must pander to and reflect the average consciousness of the voters. In America, the average consciousness of the voter is Red/Blue/Orange, so that's mostly the only kind of leaders you will get.

If a Yellow or above leader came into power, he would be demonized and hated by 90% of the population because he wouldn't reflect their values.

You can see that sorta happened with Obama. Stage Red/Blue people absolutely hated him. Including Trump.

If a Turquoise leader came in control, he would be killed. Examples:

• Jesus
• Gandhi
• MLK
• JFK (he wasn't anywhere near Turquoise, but still)
• Robert Kennedy (also not Turquoise, but still)

For a leader to be effective, he must be only 1 step above his followers. Any more than that, and they will revolt against him. The problem with Trump is that he is actually 1 step below his followers, which is why we see the disaster unfolding today.

Couldn't high conscious people behave «less conscious», then, to get elected? And Obama isn't hated by 90%?? (You said he may be yellow). And wouldn't it seem natural that the wisest people would find a way to win over the less wise? I know, stupid question, but still.

And I asked you once whether there are some almost universal positions found among enlightened people, and you said it's highly subjective. Of course it is, but I meant sorta what you are saying here. 

«Why can't turquise behave like Trump?»

And could you elaborate on why he is red? He's not killing people, but puts profits above environment, which is kind of typical orange. And btw., can't the most hardcore mystics do «magic tricks»? But again, I guess that would make it «too easy» for humanity.. maybe?

[Leo Gura]

@Edvard A hallmark of higher consciousness people is that they behave more authentically, truthfully, honestly. So they will not want to pretend to act less conscious. That's something only a low consciousness person would think of doing.

In many ways Obama was very pragmatic and Orange/Green. He wasn't super Yellow and nowhere near Turquoise.

5 hours ago, Edvard said:

And wouldn't it seem natural that the wisest people would find a way to win over the less wise?

No, just the opposite. The truly wise have no desire for power, glory, fame, or success. They have no desire to win or to rule.

If what you said was true, then all the emperors of Japan would have been Zen masters and all the presidents of the USA would have been Nobel prize winning scientists and humanitarians. But that's precisely the opposite of what happens. The people who rise to the heights of power are usually the most ego-maniacal, power-hungry, Machiavellian, ruthless, and evil. (There are a few exceptions).

5 hours ago, Edvard said:

«Why can't turquise behave like Trump?»

You'd have to be insane to want to behave like Trump on purpose.

That sorta like asking, why doesn't a university professor behave like a mental-retard? He could, but why would he?

The whole point of achieving stage Turquoise is that you see the entire cosmos as one interconnected being. There is nothing left to be selfish about. The self is seen to be a gross delusion.

5 hours ago, Edvard said:

And could you elaborate on why he is red? He's not killing people, but puts profits above environment, which is kind of typical orange.

I explained why he is Red here: https://www.actualized.org/insights/trump-and-spiral-dynamics

As President, of course he is killing people. The number of innocent civilians killed under Trump from drone strikes alone has been more in 1 year than under Obama's entire term.

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-has-already-killed-more-civilians-obama-us-fight-against-isis-653564

And, BTW, the US military grossly under-counts civilian deaths (of course).

The greater the ego, the longer its trail of collateral damage. Trump isn't even aware of the collateral damage he is causing, which is precisely what makes him so dangerous. He has no self-reflection, unlike someone like Obama.

[Spiral]

Trump know people that's for sure, maybe in order to exploit them, but still. He manged to become president with all odds against him. His motivations might not be great, but that does not mean the results won't be. 

Think of Asia, in those countries workers are payed almost nothing  under poor conditions and as a result they can export almost everything we make. Trump wants all the productions to move back to the US because he is wants to "empower" the country. If he has success the environment of will benefit as a result, due to different regulations and because of the unneeded transports. Also the Asian countries might reconsider their view on pay for their employees due this big loss of cash flow.   

To be honest this is really a annoying problem, my father also has a company but he can't compete with eastern countries because of their laws and low pay. I  mean he could not legally pay someone that little. He has a transport firm so it's not like he is selling a product. 

[Girzo]

59 minutes ago, Maxx said:

If people just want to get rid of leaders with a high level of consciousness, then Trump must have a very high level of consciousness.

That's a wrong conclusion. Ratio of percentage of high consciousness leaders killed to low level ones is not even close. To argue with that you could show examples of high consciousness people who didn't get killed, regardless of their high position in society.

[Joseph Maynor]

Low-consciousness is gonna prevail over higher-consciousness because the Ego feeds off existing culture.  Higher-consciousness requires arms-lengthing culture.  That is much harder to do.  It requires courage and guidance.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[Maxi]

@Leo Gura You will find it interesting that the number of yellow and turquoise people has increased a lot . Ken Wilber said in his newest book that the number of people at yellow is at 5% and 0.5% at turquoise compared to 1% and 0.1% when he wrote integral psycchology.