inquiry step help, I'm not the thinker?

[Dino D]

26 minutes ago, Space said:

@Dino D Try paying more attention to what is actually true in direct experience. Notice that in direct experience any type of thought comes from no one and nothing and falls back into the same place. That is literally what is happening in your experience. You might say, yes some of my thoughts just appear by themselves, but others come from 'me', 'I' am definitely creating these thoughts at will! But notice that every single thought is the same in that they all appear completely spontaneously from nothing. Where is this I-thinker? What is this I-thinker? Is there really an 'I' that is the source of thinking? The same goes for speaking and moving the body. 

Hey I get that, i knew it before... i got good pointers in other replays so i maybe evan know what to ,,do" now... i understand this but i cant in experience go beyond this thinker, i cant find that nothingness, i cant recognize that i'm nothing and that i dont exist... i understand it intellectually, i evan belive it, but my inquiry is stuck on the decision maker/thinker, i cant see beyond him. Not jet

[bananak]

@Quader I could definitely be more disciplined but I do try and break out of this consistently. I just got a 1969 Twin Reverb not too long ago, and once in a while my practice is literally cranking it in a neighborhood where houses are close together. Purposely knowing it'll annoy a % of people no matter how good it is. Every time I do this I get a little "looser", but it really is one of the hardest things I've ever done. (plus while it should be getting easier every time its getting harder as well because I know I'm making someone more and more sick of it) Trying to master not caring what people think no matter what, not letting stupid shit take me out of flow. 

@Nahm That is awesome what you pointed out about The Doors, I never knew that. That feeling you get is what I live for. Sometimes, more rarely now than months ago, I get discouraged that I might be headed a way that will leave me in misery and struggle with life. I know this is pretty normal but its really scary for me still, i'm 28 in April, most people view me as a "loser". Trying to follow dreams is really fucking hard. 

I've always been chasing dreams and big things since I was a kid, I'm definitely that guy who gives up right at the end before that one big growth curve. After studying actualized and anything related I feel like I can go back and ace my old dreams, finish them, be what I wanted to be... I feel like now it would be so easy, except it wouldn't be my most authentic route and I believe that is music. But yeah this leaves me with like "oh I can't believe I'm going to go all-out on this when it may not work", when I can just go back to old dreams and finish them off as I've figured out root problems holding me back in those areas. 

Typed a lot because you said you wouldn't trade it for anything else.

I'd love to hear what you guys feel your life purpose is if you have any of it figured out.

Also what do you play? I'm obsessed with the blues really, I know its where I want to put all of my time, and effort. 

I appreciate all the advice! 

[Space]

2 hours ago, Dino D said:

Hey I get that, i knew it before... i got good pointers in other replays so i maybe evan know what to ,,do" now... i understand this but i cant in experience go beyond this thinker, i cant find that nothingness, i cant recognize that i'm nothing and that i dont exist... i understand it intellectually, i evan belive it, but my inquiry is stuck on the decision maker/thinker, i cant see beyond him. Not jet

Be careful not to blindly believe what you've heard about what you are. As far as you're concerned right now everything you've been told could be bullshit. You must throw out all beliefs and ideas about what you think you are or might be, and just focus on what is true in your direct experience. Don't try to recognise that you are 'nothing' or that you don't exist. Who says that's true? Discover the Truth for yourself.

[Nahm]

@bananak thanks! I can relate man.  My original stuff is very acoustic singer song writer ish, and I do a lot of covers in different keys and often change the feel; major to minor’s, etc.

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Space said:

Be careful not to blindly believe what you've heard about what you are. As far as you're concerned right now everything you've been told could be bullshit. You must throw out all beliefs and ideas about what you think you are or might be, and just focus on what is true in your direct experience. Don't try to recognise that you are 'nothing' or that you don't exist. Who says that's true? Discover the Truth for yourself.

Hmm, it's a blind belive to trust in direct experience too. I can experience having sex with an elephand in my head (schizophrenia) and think that this is real... I can have the ,,experience of enlightenment but how do i know what this is, maybe just an crazy state of mind or of aspect of perception or whatever... 

to go further questions like what happends in sleep, or after death, or why I dont experince your life, are also never logiccaly explained.

Also, whatever I studyed at one moment i get it, but the search for enlightenment and to get that is a life long search for most of the poeple, why, maybe only if you delude your self hard enought until you belive/get it or force you self to experience it, or force your mind to that state... or not, i dont know... however it can not be proved that consciousness is not in the mind, and that the thinker is not just a property of the brain/maind/consciousness... the only prove that you got is direct experience and as i said, thats not valid. however i can't say that, never ever, until i experienced it my self... but i cant see what you or Leo do see, that ,,lovely " enlightenment experience, i look in 1000 ways, and no... but you say that its not a state that came from crazy intense looking or drugs... it's the TRUTH... ah, hope i get there

[Nahm]

22 hours ago, Dino D said:

They are thaughts...

I observe them, so I'm not the thoughts... OK, I'm the observer hmm... But thoughts come by them selfs, only if i try not to think, because I can also activly think, then I'm the thinker... I DO the thinking, thoughts dont arise from them selfs, i make them, I think them by will, I controle them (not apsolutly but i do ,,drive thinking) ... It's hard to express but I try it...

Also, by will I go to the feelings of my hand, my foot, my body... I do it with free Will, then I again do the thinking, adn back to senzations... I'm littelary doing this, I controll what i observe, i choose, it's done by free will, by decision... the decision maker seems the same one as the thinker (so I decide where my awareness or atention goes, i do the ,,thinkig" and decision making by my free will, by my choosing)

Ok, words are limited... I hope you get me, I can not get beside that ,GUY who is the active thinker" who moves his attention/awareness trought the body, who decides... suggestions, help? 

Just a thought, might be helpful, but if there where a computer, with artificial intelligence, it might still struggle to understand what electricity is - not where it comes from, or how it can be measured & used - but what it is.

[Space]

16 hours ago, Dino D said:

Hmm, it's a blind belive to trust in direct experience too. I can experience having sex with an elephand in my head (schizophrenia) and think that this is real... I can have the ,,experience of enlightenment but how do i know what this is, maybe just an crazy state of mind or of aspect of perception or whatever... 

to go further questions like what happends in sleep, or after death, or why I dont experince your life, are also never logiccaly explained.

Also, whatever I studyed at one moment i get it, but the search for enlightenment and to get that is a life long search for most of the poeple, why, maybe only if you delude your self hard enought until you belive/get it or force you self to experience it, or force your mind to that state... or not, i dont know... however it can not be proved that consciousness is not in the mind, and that the thinker is not just a property of the brain/maind/consciousness... the only prove that you got is direct experience and as i said, thats not valid. however i can't say that, never ever, until i experienced it my self... but i cant see what you or Leo do see, that ,,lovely " enlightenment experience, i look in 1000 ways, and no... but you say that its not a state that came from crazy intense looking or drugs... it's the TRUTH... ah, hope i get there

I could spend a long time replying to this comment, but I won't because you need to figure this stuff out for yourself. Keep self-inquiring, meditating and studying everything Leo teaches. It's good that you're questioning everything.

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Space said:

I could spend a long time replying to this comment, but I won't because you need to figure this stuff out for yourself. Keep self-inquiring, meditating and studying everything Leo teaches. It's good that you're questioning everything.

The thing is that I also analyze Leo and guys like you, you are in this obviously above me, you asked those questiins evan more deaply then me, and you came to those conclusions, so I belive you evan if I dont get it, it seam true that leo and guys like you really and trully get it, so that all you say is probbably true... 

[tecladocasio]

@Leo Gura No one controls it's thoughts ,because the reality in that there is no one to control it in the first place hahah . The ''being a controller'' is just a feeling , a thought 

[tecladocasio]

@Dino D Do this exercise , try to guess what's your next thought , see cleary that you can't know this . You think a thought and after you make a thought that says that ''you'' thought it , but in the appearence of the fisrt thought you didn't choose it , it was afterwards . The same way with everything , the feeling of a ''me'' that choosed the thought or action comes after the action it self . You can feel that you control , but if you look closer you seee that you don't .

[Dino D]

2 minutes ago, tecladocasio said:

@Dino D Do this exercise , try to guess what's your next thought , see cleary that you can't know this . You think a thought and after you make a thought that says that ''you'' thought it , but in the appearence of the fisrt thought you didn't choose it , it was afterwards . The same way with everything , the feeling of a ''me'' that choosed the thought or action comes after the action it self . You can feel that you control , but if you look closer you seee that you don't .

sharp! thx

[Highest]

There is only reality doing what it does and being what it is, the thinker and controller is a great illusion. We are cooperators and a part of the divine, the only true controller. 

[Dino D]

5 hours ago, Highest said:

There is only reality doing what it does and being what it is, the thinker and controller is a great illusion. We are cooperators and a part of the divine, the only true controller. 

who is the cooperator? what would be a part of the divine, so I'm that part? like my finger is a part of me ? but a finger is a sepparet cooneceted ,,thing" ... hmm?

 

[Faceless]

The thinker is a fragment of thought that attributes to “itself” a series of thoughts.

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Faceless

[sgn]

 

[Faceless]

@sgn ??

Edited December 17, 2017 by Faceless

[jse]

On 12/15/2017 at 4:28 AM, Leo Gura said:

BIG HAIRY PURPLE ELEPHANT.
See, I just implanted a thought into your mind. You had zero control over it.

Could someone here please help me get this BIG HAIRY PURPLE ELEPHANT outta my mind!

                                                                             

[Joseph Maynor]

You can't always get rid of thoughts!  A good example of this is when you have a song stuck in your head.  The Higher-Mind might want to get rid of the song to get some peace, but the Lower-Mind stubbornly disagrees.  Even if the Lower-Mind releases temporarily, it always ignores the Higher-Mind's request and starts the song back up very quickly. 

See?  It's like something with a mind of its own is operating and you're just watching.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[jse]

On 12/15/2017 at 0:47 AM, Dino D said:

inquiry step help, I'm not the thinker?

Who would've thunk it...

[Dino D]

On 17. 12. 2017. at 11:14 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

You can't always get rid of thoughts!  A good example of this is when you have a song stuck in your head.  The Higher-Mind might want to get rid of the song to get some peace, but the Lower-Mind stubbornly disagrees.  Even if the Lower-Mind releases temporarily, it always ignores the Higher-Mind's request and starts the song back up very quickly. 

See?  It's like something with a mind of its own is operating and you're just watching.

i get that some part of the mind is operating on its own, but i dont get that everything is like that... i see the concepts of determinism but i still dont really SEE it and i feel and think like I'm still the thinker... the brain runs on its own but I can use it and controol it in a certain procentage, as i can move my body... so the brain has autopilot or me(the manual pilot)... it is all determinated after it happend because we can find causes why it happend, but before it is happening its not predetermineted because it hase the potential to go left or right, the causes can be lined that the potential to going right is 90%, but there is still me (free will) that will chose, and the more councious I am the less predeterminated i am, and more free, and the free will gets more free... So it's possible that the same cuses can give different effecets, and this is the result of causes+free will...