The Idea That Non-duality Includes Duality Doesn’t Resonate With Me

[SOUL]

Duality exists.... just like unity does and trinity and quadity? and on and on and on all the way to infinity so all the ones that aren't duality count as non-dual.

For whatever reason our minds have a propensity to see things as duality and even be fixated on it when really it isn't it at all and this could explain why some get equally fixated on non-duality to break free from it. Although to me that would be akin to being consumed with a theory of non-unity, non-trinity or even non-infinity....sure, the mind doesn't typically have those other paradigms gripping it like duality does but to set oneself against something is continuing to give power to it in our mind.

In an epic form of irony one creates a duality by being in opposition to it so to drain it of power in one's mind we shouldn't set ourselves against it, just accept it because it is merely one of many forms that exist in the finite of infinity.

I didn't watch the video but non-duality undoubtedly includes duality other than the obvious terminology of it, it's setting oneself against it ideologically. So as an alternative one can seek unity with infinity and remove the focus on that other altogether.

Edited December 16, 2017 by SOUL

[Hsinav]

Non-duality includes by definition everything. 

[UDT]

@Joseph Maynor Last year a buddhist in Vietnam told be roughly this after I asked the question about non-duality.

We have Unity, Duality and Trinity.

Now lets just imagine that everything consist of little tiny god particles which are all identical.

So everything, at its core, consists of the same particles, that is unity. Now some particles form different structures which are now perceivable by you.  How do you name things? You say, X is harder than Y, A is darker than B, 1 smells other than 2. You have a spectrum, e.g from softest to hardest, from darkest to lightest, that is Duality. Now you perceive those objects (X,Y,A,B,1,2) in some area on the spectrum. All their characteristics are in some area of the spectrum formed by your senses. That is trinity, a point between two extremes.

[Joseph Maynor]

This might be a distinction without a difference.  The Mind does contribute to Reality.  That's a fact.  

[Joseph Maynor]

I think the upshot of this is I should have never taken this issue so seriously.  It implies that a meaning has the property of truth.  I should have just realized that what is said is just what is said.  It is something to say laid up on top of reality.  And that's all meanings can be.  There's no -- Wait! -- That's not a true meaning! 

Truth is not a property of meaning, although the Mind likes to encourage that belief.  This explains my resistance or block, which raised this issue.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Joseph Maynor

[eputkonen]

@Joseph Maynor , agreed.  And some things are said more sloppily than others.  But it is best to not get too caught up with the words.  Mere pointers.  Words (and phrases) are never the truth.

Edited December 16, 2017 by eputkonen

[zazed]

there is no need to understand anything. Understanding is perhaps useful when trying to explain.

Existence exists. Be!

[Shin]

Filthy mental masturbator !

Bad Zen devil, very very bad !

 

[Natasha]

@Joseph Maynor Same as saying 'Water doesn't include a drop of water' or 'Sand doesn't include everything made of sand'. 

[SOUL]

Glass is made of sand but when it's broken glass doesn't turn back into sand.......

Edited December 16, 2017 by SOUL

[Natasha]

5 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Glass is made of sand but when it's broken glass doesn't turn back into sand.......

If glass is sand, it remains sand even when broken.

[SOUL]

Just now, Natasha said:

If glass is sand, it remains sand even when broken.

If glass is sand before and after is it ever really glass? hehe

[Natasha]

Just now, SOUL said:

If glass is sand before and after is it ever really glass? hehe

Just one of its forms, thus non-duality including duality....or them being the same 

[SOUL]

1 minute ago, Natasha said:

Just one of its forms, thus non-duality including duality....or them being the same 

Duality is a transparent illusion in the mind so non-duality is equally an illusion.

[Faceless]

Everything comes from the ground and unfolds back onto itself. All actions, movements, processes, manifest from the ground “totality”

In this sense there is no division

It’s an abstraction of the mind. Maybe Slightly similar in the abstraction made in karma and cause and effect.

Maybe this is what he is speaking of. I don’t fill my head with all the vids, concepts, and such words like god and non-duality so I don’t know ??‍♂️. I don’t like to use these words personaly. It seems rather obvious that there is no actual division. And there’s no need for any outside agency to see this. Probably making this seeing more difficult.  

Either way this doesn’t need to be worried about in our daily life. So let’s not go beyond that in which we haven’t yet begun. 

??

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Faceless

[Natasha]

11 minutes ago, SOUL said:

Duality is a transparent illusion in the mind so non-duality is equally an illusion.

Illusion is that separation and formness created by the mind. Non-duality is no-mind perspective.

[Pelin]

This is all because we are using language, which is a very primitive form of communication. And all the languages are still dual, even the word non-duality is dual. there is duality, and there is non-duality. We say nothing and everything, but we refer to the same thing. What is meant by non-duality cannot (easily) be articulated with language. When we advance and evolve more, we may be able to communicate it with others.

[SOUL]

7 minutes ago, Natasha said:

Illusion is that separation and formness created by the mind. Non-duality is no-mind perspective.

The separation between mind and 'no-mind' is an illusion and the distinction between them doesn't really exist in perspective just like the mind's formness of duality and 'non-duality' is an illusion with no distinction.

[Natasha]

38 minutes ago, SOUL said:

The separation between mind and 'no-mind' is an illusion and the distinction between them doesn't really exist in perspective just like the mind's formness of duality and 'non-duality' is an illusion with no distinction.

Yes, all that and none of that at the same time 

[SOUL]

20 minutes ago, Natasha said:

Yes, all that and none of that at the same time 

So to illuminate and clarify this all what we seek in experience through what is called 'enlightenment' is to be present in the moment just simply being with all the ideas and concepts of non-duality, no mind, 'you do not exist' and truth with a capital 'T' that are typically associated with the 'enlightenment' serve to be additional distractions of illusory perception and not distinct characteristics of the experience sought.

Edited December 16, 2017 by SOUL