Who is the best strategic thinker?

[egoless]

Give your vote in the poll and explain why you think so?

[Eva]

INTJ because of theoretic way of thinking combined with future-oriented outlook. Also structure gives good foundations to execution. Yet, downside is possible rigidity.

[egoless]

@Eva I think INTPs are on par with INTJs if not even more successful in some situations. INTPs are better big picture thinkers as they tend to have more holistic views and analysis. INTJs are sometimes way too oriented on details and oversee the big picture. However, I agree that when it comes to execution INTJs may be better executors. But the wittiest plans and strategies should come from INTPs imho.

@Leo Gura Leo I would appreciate your insight on that. I know that you also like strategic thinking. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by egoless

[RichardY]

INTP(As potential best): although ENTJ imho have the most follow through of any personal strategy and are proactive(ENTJ) rather than reactive(INTP). So I would say ENTJ's have the best internalised strategic operations, where as the INTP externalises to their immediate environment.

INTJ: Int Intuition as their primary function deals with known causal formulaic methods, when perhaps the ability to react to the unknown maybe required. So in situations with a limited range of parameters they are probably the most adept. 

ISTP: "Mechanics" are probably the most adaptive, to a general situation on the fly.

ESTJ: Are probably the best at maintaining their own personal Integrity, as situations develop.

Edited December 11, 2017 by RichardY

[egoless]

@RichardY very good explanation. I notice that you know mbti personality types very closely. Do you think INTPs have potential to better ENTJs if they work on their proactive skills? 

What do you think about ENTPs?

[Shin]

Intj are called mastermind for a reason.

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

 

@egoless Exactly.

But what happens when the Intj starts consciousness works, learn to follow his intuition, and ultimately becomes holistic ?

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Shin

[egoless]

@Shin yes they are very good indeed. But they lack intuitional approach and bird’s eye view. Intps are more generalists. They have better big picture already in their heads. 

[egoless]

15 minutes ago, Shin said:

Intj are called mastermind for a reason.

https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types

 

@egoless Exactly.

But what happens when the Intj starts consciousness works, learn to follow his intuition, and ultimately becomes holistic ?

 

 

Same could be said for INTPs. By becoming more conscious they will learn how to execute their strategies without getting bored rather than just crafting badass strategy plans. So becoming more conscious will fill the both gaps for INTPs and INTJs. I would say INTJs are better in the structured environment where everything is defined. However throw Them in real life situation or business and INTPs will be much flexible strategists than INTJs. Real life is not always that structured as INTJs love.

Edited December 12, 2017 by egoless

[RichardY]

@egoless Maybe not so much as work on their proactive skills, but rather narrow their focus. Thinking of a military general from history "Hannibal"(INTP perhaps) he successfully managed to encircle and destroy an entire roman army, much bigger then his at Cannae. Though he ultimately lost the war by not sacking Rome(basically slaying the population). Where as someone like Julius Caesar (ENTJ) knew what he wanted and went for it, using whatever means at his disposal, but doing what he said he was going to do, very strong willpower.

ENTP: Extroverted Intuition, too caught up looking at different things to really form a strategy, more of an artist or inventor.

[Shin]

I lost it when I read this  

Quote

You have considered whether “optimizing” your dating life by holding formal interviews might be a really good move.

This one too  

Quote

Getting even a kindergarten-level education in your own emotions feels like you discovered profound truths about the world.

https://introvertdear.com/news/intj-personality-type-small-signs/

Edited December 12, 2017 by Shin

[egoless]

6 minutes ago, RichardY said:

@egoless Maybe not so much as work on their proactive skills, but rather narrow their focus. Thinking of a military general from history "Hannibal"(INTP perhaps) he successfully managed to encircle and destroy an entire roman army, much bigger then his at Cannae. Though he ultimately lost the war by not sacking Rome(basically slaying the population). Where as someone like Julius Caesar (ENTJ) knew what he wanted and went for it, using whatever means at his disposal, but doing what he said he was going to do, very strong willpower.

ENTP: Extroverted Intuition, too caught up looking at different things to really form a strategy, more of an artist or inventor.

The way you described ENTP also resembles with INTP. But do you think INTPs are more potent strategists than ENTPs? I think so, because INTPs are more analytical and creative. Ok let me define why I think INTPs have the best potential as you said. We are very creative and analytical which is the perfect mix for a strategist. We have outstanding big picture thinking - the best out of all mbti types imho. And we are also extremely flexible. 

However I strongly agree with you that we lack the focus. I wonder if it is improvable because it sits in our character  

Edited December 12, 2017 by egoless

[RichardY]

@egoless

ENTP:

Ext Intuition (Pattern Matching)
Introverted Thinking (Unconscious Thinking)
Ext Feeling (What is the Group doing)
Introverted Sensing (What old information do I have)

INTP:

Introverted Thinking
Extroverted Intuition
Int Sensing
Ext Feeling

I think that the ENTP is going to be more caught up in observing. Where as the INTP is attempting to integrate existing information in their own minds. Why is Meditation(Integration, perhaps) more prevalent with INTPs, and Self Knowledge(Empirical) with ENTJs? So an ENTP is perhaps more of a tinkerer like Da Vinci, where as an INTP is more stuck in their heads (in general). You can make toys or you can play with toys which is more fun?
 

Edited December 12, 2017 by RichardY

[egoless]

@RichardY Da vinci was an obvious INTP though.

[RichardY]

@egoless Maybe, though I go with ENTP as "Inventor/Visionary", INTP would be more Machiavellian to me. Tend to think of Da Vinci's powers of observation, anatomy drawings, "flying machines" etc. Where as INTP "Thinker/Architect" would be more abstract, than visual. Beside if he's thinking about drawing, he's not drawing. Observation over Abstraction.

 

 

 

 

[egoless]

@RichardY INTPs are known as inventors though. They love to investigate different fields as Da vinci did. They collect the knowledge, they are natural born Truth seekers. They are extremely creative and analytical. They lack focus and are absent minded. Machiaveli was very focused and oriented. Machiaveli is and INTJ to me.

Edited December 12, 2017 by egoless

[RichardY]

@egoless As you said and I generally agree "they lack focus" drawing human nervous & muscular systems must require immense focus (Resolution), what could possibly require more focus than drawing a human nervous system at the time? Which INTP's generally lack. So make up for the lower resolution, with "increased screen size", the ultimate consumer of information.

As Jung said "Ideas have people". I think he also mentioned somewhere that a lot of his ideas came from reading various religious texts. There is a phenomena called Cryptoamnesia (By Jung) where people forget where they learned something and think it was their own original idea. Einstein being a theoretical science integrated various ideas into a general theory of relativity, I guess you could call that creativity in an abstract sense.

Machiavelli: INTJ (Scientist/Mastermind), if he was, wouldn't he have chosen another career than politics? Haven't read "The Prince" but isn't one of the themes it is better to be feared than loved if one must choose, or something? How can one put a formula to that?

[Source_Mystic]

@egoless INTJ And INTP  I fall under both as my J is 51% and my P is 49%. I  just took the test yesterday have not taken it in like 10 years but the results were the same. All other percentiles are 73% or more and I doubt that will ever change.

I think the Introverted Intuitive Thinking is the key  because both seem to live in their internal worlds and work out problems themselves. I think  to be really efficient thinker is to have the intellectual fuel to burn. In both cases that is expansive knowledge on a lot of topics. The more expansive their  knowledge the more dangerous the strategist.  The fact that their feeling is almost nonexistent or ether completely internalized means that they are not people pleaseers. The are more driven by principals,  truths or out right practical solutions. 

I can tell you Nothing is off bounds for me if I want knowledge of it.  I will study  things that others shun or run from because I want to know

• what it really is?
•  How it works?
• why it works?
• How I can use it?
• Can I take it apart?
• How I can improve on it? 
• How it can be adapted to be used in another field or discipline?
• I also want to know why others view or fear some types of knowledge?

 

 This is where I think another strength is. I want to take something apart, reverse engineer it , improve upon it and then use it in a way you will never see coming.  The reason why these two types can be so dangerous as when they are fed vast amounts of information at a young age they can make complex correlations across a vast spectrum of knowledge that others will miss.  The  combination of Introverted Intuitive thinking pared with vast resources of knowledge is the reason I think these types excel at tactics. 

I also think that because of their social and emotional shortcomings this energy is focused inward even more.  Less  distraction more focus.

I can be also very unconventional when I am trying to solve a problem or understand a system. I have been known to then completely suspend  judgment. Then dive right in head first use every assumption of the system every rule become a adherent down to the last axiom. After I feel the time is right I will come out of that system as adherent and look at it from the outside then make my judgments from both a insider and an outsider of that system. This is remarkably uncommon tactic yet is is exactly how the INT mind thinks.

I also think you would find a higher than average rate of people that were high on the autistic spectrum. in the INT category. 

On the down side I think this is where you would find a lot of narcissistic behavior or tendencies As well as a fair share of Psychopaths as well. These would be the more unhealthy versions  that have a complete absence of emotion or had traumatic upbringing that would make them even more dangerous. In these individuals here would be truly no bounds that they would not take and absolutely no limits. Their propensity for cold unfeeling  ruthlessness would be unparalleled as they would have no empathy or even sympathy to regulate them. 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Source_Mystic

[Source_Mystic]

3 hours ago, Shin said:

 

But what happens when the Intj starts consciousness works, learn to follow his intuition, and ultimately becomes holistic ?

 

 

You are looking at the answer .... Hi nice to meet you. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by Source_Mystic