"Reality" is a hallucination + psychedelics + Leo/mods stop deleting threads ffs

[WaveInTheOcean]

EDIT: I just realized it was probably a mod deleting the thread. In that case, Leo, you have to tell your mods to start being good mods instead of terrible mods. =)

I'm shocked to see Leo deleting the thread "The truth about psychedelics". I know why he deleted it. Because the guy writing it was indirectly bashing all of Leo's work, by saying psychedelics only create hallucinations which you cannot learn anything from. Obviously the guy is a newb, and I decided to write a reply.
What Leo seems to not understand is that this is a FORUM, and it's fucking TERRIBLE to delete threads just because people express viewpoints which are deeply flawed. It should be allowed to question everything in this forum as long as it relates to 'consciousness', 'meditation', 'psychedelics' etc. 
It can be very healthy sometimes for someone to come along and express an opinion which is directly opposite of what you think and believe. And yes, the guy hadn't even tried psychedelics, so of course his opinions are not nearly as valid as yours or mine, Leo, but still, it can be healthy to get them to be expressed, because there will come replies/answers, like mine.

When I read his viewpoint, that psychedelics merely causes you to have hallucinations by interacting with receptors in the brain, it made me think for a while how I could articulate myself in order to express why he's slightly wrong. I was happy that he wrote it, even though I'm on a totally other page than him. I was happy because by making me think about why he's wrong, I got a better understanding of myself and my beliefs. And surely, there are many people reading on this forum, who don't participate in the discussions, and I bet that they also enjoy reading different viewpoints and arguments for and againsts tools like psychedelics.

I mean, for fuck sake, Leo. There was a time +2 years ago, where you believed and argued that psychedelics were a distraction to truth (I can remember discussions with you on YouTube, where you argued they were bad for spiritual enligthenment).

Also, it's just very annoying that what I spend 20 minutes writing on just got deleted. Luckily I had a tab open with the page where I wrote my post, so I copy-pasted it and will post it here:
 

Quote

What you don't seem to get is that the experience you're having right now in this moment is a hallucination. you're hallucinating being a 'self' inside a skull interacting with an -- to you -- outside external world.

Psychedelics merely have the ability to slightly distort that experience, making it apparant to you, that what you take for a fact -- that there exist a materialistic reality independent of you -- is not a fact, but merely an illusion =) 

Also your notion of how psychedelic trips are is totally wrong and comes from the cultural mass media, which naturally finds it amusing to portray an image of psychedelics making you see elephants and making you believe you can fly, which is not at all what you experience on psychedelics. What you experience on psychedelics can best be described as like viewing yourself from an outside perspective, which then shows you, that you, yourself, is just a story, and not real.

You write: "A wall exists, even if you don't see it you can't walk through it, even if your perception of it changes, you can never walk through that wall."

There exists no such thing as a wall. "A wall" is a mental concept. It's a conceptual division of the unity of existence into parts: "me", "wall", "other human", "monkey", "star", "galaxy", "kitchen", "stone", "floor", "house". Psychedelics or meditation can show you that it's all YOU which is a very beautiful insight to have... it's all you my friend.

If you actually start to contemplate your everyday experience, you'll find that it's actually an unified experience without any 'things'/'nouns' in it. Dividing and thus labeling your experience as being constituted of 'parts' (me, wall, floor, things, food, lion, other humans) is what your brain is programmed to do, because it's necessary for interacting with the world in order to survive. But this 'dividing', 'splitting' and 'labeling' of reality is really just an ego-smaug that you unconsciously lay upon 'raw' reality.

You say you can't walk through a wall. "Who" is it that cannot? Yes, the body surely can't, but that's just the basic laws of the dream. There has to be somewhat consistent "physical" laws within a dream in order for you to believe it's not a dream but instead "hardcore reality", hehe If everything was totally random then you would know it's a hoax, and you wouldn't be able to live the dream.  

The distinction between 'reality' and 'dream' or 'reality' and 'hallucination' is very arbitrary and is only made unconsciously from a survival-standpoint, or should we say, a kind of survival-programming. Psychedelics totally messes up with all that biological and cultural programming in your brain. Not just the happiness-centres of the brain (which are likely the only parts that drugs like cocaine or heroine alter). No, psychedelics messes it all up. All of it. And that's why they are so fucking powerful consciousness-tools. They show you that it's all a hoax, that everything is relative and grounded in absolute nothing.

EDIT: I just realized it was probably a mod deleting the thread. In that case, Leo, you have to tell your mods to start being good mods instead of terrible mods. =)

Edited December 8, 2017 by WaveInTheOcean

[ajasatya]

+1 for the thread deletion thing.

if we're talking about Truth, we have to be very careful not to turn this environment into a dogmatic context.

hell, isn't this kind of immature attitude the daily practice of low consciousness institutions like medieval catholic churches etc?

[Nahm]

@ajasatya sure it is. But if it is ignored and stifled, it will grow. If it is met with acceptance, now there is an example. ❤️ We’re it not for the suffering, we would have no compassion, were it not for confusion, we would have no clarity. Even trolls deserves a chance. It only allows me more clarity, and to be stronger. 

[Nahm]

@WaveInTheOcean @ajasatya  And we can consider the possibility that he learned something about himself, and deleted his own post. We’ve all been there right? 

[WaveInTheOcean]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@WaveInTheOcean @ajasatya  And we can consider the possibility that he learned something about himself, and deleted his own post. We’ve all been there right? 

I didn't know you could do that?

But since you just wrote it, I looked for such a function for my own thread here, and I found the "Moderation Actions" -> "Hide"-function . I didn't know that such a function existed.
Well, then it seems like, that it was probably just the guy who deleted ("hide") his thread. I will then say to him, that I'm not a fan of that choice  And I'm not a fan of the function either, lol.

Edited December 8, 2017 by WaveInTheOcean

[aurum]

@WaveInTheOcean @ajasatya

I don’t know who deleted it or why the post was deleted. But either way I can assure you it’s not a mod conspiracy to stifle apposing opinions. Likely he deleted it himself or one of us made the judgement call that it violated forum rules.

[snowleopard]

I wondered what happened to that thread. For the record, I felt it was a valid discussion, and worth exploring further. Too bad one takes the time to comment and provide what may be a useful information and links, only to see it all go for naught. Out of curiosity, if a post is hidden, is there something that indicates that is the case?

[Hsinav]

2 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

and I bet that they also enjoy reading different viewpoints and arguments for and againsts tools like psychedelics.

How can one have a viewpoint of psychedelics without trying them?

Edited December 8, 2017 by Hsinav

[Shin]

9 minutes ago, Hsinav said:

How can one have a viewpoint of psychedelics without trying them?

 

Very easy,

Closed-mindeness + cultural dogmas.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Shin

[Hsinav]

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

Very easy,

Closed-mindeness + cultural dogmas.

 

Lol

[Nahm]

@aurum ‘mod conspiracy’ lol!! Awesome.  In hindsight, we could have had a lot of fun with this one.

[YaNanNallari]

Well of course it's fine to delete a thread that is 100% based on a misunderstanding. Like lol

[aurum]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@aurum ‘mod conspiracy’ lol!! Awesome.  In hindsight, we could have had a lot of fun with this one.

Don’t worry, I think I threw them off the trail for now! Yes, yes, there is no mod conspiracy. Just go back to your regularly scheduled posting. Nothing to see here.

[Nahm]

@aurum cool thanks. I’ll see you at the temple next Sunday.

[Leo Gura]

I did not delete that thread. I'm not sure how it ended up in the Trash Bin. I'm guessing probably because some user(s) disagreed and used the "report" function to flag it as spam.

That thread has been re-instated.

Don't get you panties in a twist

There is no conspiracy to censor dissenting opinions here. Very few threads are ever deleted, only if they devolve into complete stupidity or break obvious Forum Guidelines, like asking how to source drugs.

[bobbyward]

@Leo Gura how often do you do psychedelics?

[egoless]

Unfortunately my thread has also been closed. Where I was just offering an open contemplation about possibility of Enlightenment conspiracy... 

I don't think that thread was stupid - on the contrary it was very very interesting for many people and it could bee seen from how much views and replies it got within couple of minutes. But yeah... Your forum your rules 

Remember Leo, what you consider as stupid topic may not be the same for the others. Are not we talking about nondualism here? Did not you argue with me that there is no evil and good? Then why there could be stupid thread and clever one?

@Leo Gura You know that I respect you for the work you are doing. But I am not fan of these thread blocks unless they roughly break the rules. Don't become blinded by your point of view only and please stay open minded as you always suggest us to be. 

Edited December 9, 2017 by egoless

[Galyna]

So what?  Even if he did delete some threads...seems like you guys, are just toying around with this Enlightenment. Why do you care enough to come here and debate? This is not what you should be concentrating on. 

[Leo Gura]

@egoless I have no qualms cracking down on threads which are just mental-masturbation.

This is a place for people to accomplish useful work. Not monkey around. You can monkey around elsewhere.

[kieranperez]

It’s his forum.